ddr70

Ah, SN 15 in binary (00001111 --> 15)   very nice!

UPDATE:  I added my 'lucky 8s' radar-rotator $10s to a fancy SN signature set here:  https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1316&Tab=list  I just had these certified back in May.  I have to upload pics for my other radars and a binary national (it's a 000111 or a 7)

Any chance you could post pics of the fancy serial numbers in a few signature sets?  I just started one, but have a bit more work to do (see:  https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1316&Tab=list).  You'll find Radars and Rotators on 10s and 20s there.  I switched from coins big time to Nationals (mostly large size).

I'll have to look for your 1870 Eagle over on NGC.  Mine is in an 1870 mint set, but it's not a 60.

Hope to get back to an Orlando show in January soon.  Perhaps I'll see ya there!

If you search Heritage's archives (search $50 Brown Back in error notes) you find this info in the description of an Eric P. Newman $50/$100 BB from Kansas City. In June of 1945, Barney Bluestone sold the Grinnell $50/$100 and the $100/$50 Brown Backs from Albuquerque, New Mexico Territory in one lot. The price realized was $830, at the time a very high price. The pair later found their way into the collection of Amon Carter, Jr. and, upon Amon's passing in 1982, the pair was sold privately and has not been seen since--until now that is.

When the charter was printed upside down on the back sheet, it wasn't recognized, but was used to orient the back for the printing of the fronts (can forgive the mistake given the charter is in blue and much larger than other design elements on the back).  This is what you will also find on the Kansas City $50/$100 BB.  

Heritage also sold the Albuquerque $100 BB two sheets prior which is not an error note--they sold it twice.   I also noted the Cashier was the Assistant Cashier (R.A. Frost) on both the C on L error above and the B592834 note.

Reminds me of the inverted Jenny airmail stamp, only it didn't receive the hype.  Too bad I wasn't in Albuquerque in 1903 in need of some pocket money :-)

That's the one!  It surprises me that the sheet wasn't significantly damaged including this note from the A4 position (this note).  At this point in time sometime after 1925 since there's no treasury SN, the Mellon NB had its officers' signatures engraved on the front plates, so I have to wonder if the sheet was ever sent to Pittsburgh.  I suspect it was not and somehow escaped destruction.  Possibly it ended up in the Treasury Secretary's hands as that would have been Andrew W. Mellon.  I wonder where notes with plates B4 through D4 ended up.  Possibly they were destroyed having been mangled by the printing machine (which accepted sheets of 4 notes at a time).

Impressive.  Did you see the PA $5 plain back charter 6301 SN A109273 pp A4 error note with SN A109274 on back? Just awesome! thanks!!

This is for Ch. 6301 which issued series 1902 Red Seals (RS), Date Backs (DB) and Plain Backs (PB) as well as Ty 1 and 2 Small Nationals.  Using Heritage's archives, I've found all RS and DB have A.W. Mellon as President.  W.S. Mitchell was Cashier for all RS and most DBs, but was succeeded by BW Lewis near the end of the DB issues (one example on a $10 DB where BW Lewis signed with AW Mellon, SN 248880 given a $10DB range of SN 1-249000).  In 1921, A.W. Mellon resigned to take the post of U.S. Treasury Secretary.  You'll find both A.W. and R.B. on notes with the regional sort letter, but only R.B. on notes without the geographical sort letter, as geographical sort letters were dropped in 1924. After Aug. 22, 1925, the treasury SN was replaced with a second instance of the bank SN and as expected only Lewis and R.B. Mellon appear as bank officers.

I've found only one example, a $5 PB, where R.B. Mellon signed the note and a line is engraved on the plate for placement of bank officers' signatures and the plate was a D.  All others have engraved signatures of Lewis and R.B. Mellon and no lines.  Research to date has signatures engraved on $5 PBs starting with Plate A3 and continuing through O4 as the 'highest' plate I've observed.  Early plain back $10s and $20s are found with the signature line and the highest plate 'numbers' observed were DD and J, respectively.  Two PB $10s with TT front plate and a $20 with an N front plate were the highest found.  A bit more research is needed to determine highest plate 'number' for the Mellon NB (someone with track and price could help out here).  So that makes for interesting variants:  a) with engraved signatures and b) older notes without engraved signatures.

Aldrich-Vreeland Act was enacted in 1908 which allowed banks to back their notes with 'other securities'.  The act expired in 1915, so the backing of notes using other securities than treasury bonds was no longer allowed.    It would appear that in the case of Ch. 6301, Date Backs were issued up until the expiration of Aldrich-Vreeland and new plates and use of Plain Backs began.  All plates used for PBs have 'backed by US bonds deposited with the treasury' as do all red seals; red seal issues must have ended by 1908 with date back picking up the 'other securities' backing language.

Mellon's charter date, June 3, 1902, appears on all large size notes even though notes were printed in 1925 after the treasury SN was discontinued.  I assume the Mellon NB renewed their charter at the 20 year mark, but even though dozens of plates were engraved, Lyons and Roberts and June 3, 1902 continued to be used.  The Act of July 1, 1922 extended lifetimes of all national banks for 99 years, thereby ending the need for a new series; the Mellon NB must not have had an order for notes for those problematic 28 days in June.  I'm happy to report I'm no longer confused by Ch. 6301!

In case you are wondering, what are the SN ranges for 6301, here they are:
$5 RS SN 1-116200; $5 DB SN 1-374995; $5 PB SN 374996-1000000; A1-A363739
3x$10-$20 RS SN 1-109670; $10 DB 1-249000; $10 PB SN 249001-696905
$50-$100 RS 1-3070; DB 1-7600

I switched my collecting focus from coins to currency and then got hooked on Nationals.  I switched because I couldn't find good values in coins whereas those depressed currency prices over their highs a little over a decade ago drew me in.  I'm learning quite a bit--learned a lot when I bought Kelley's National bank note reference.  My parents gave me five series 1929 $5 nationals, two of which have very low census numbers so they are now graded and posted in various competitive and signature sets.  One is so common I wish they had spent it :-).  I prefer large size notes over small, but I still look at small and sometimes win a note.  Soooo... let me plug my newest signature set--the theme is Citizens in the title of national banks.  It would seem they are generally rarer than their First National Bank rivals and I have over a dozen posted with pics now.  See https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1289&Tab=list

couldn't find a buffalo emoji here, just a bee.  Bee--utiful note!  Thanks for sharing!

PMG must have placed Radar on the back because your name is on the front, right? Have you found any series of 1882 $5s for 2491?

The $5 Plain Back is the 'youngest' note as it doesn't have a regional sort letter and it has two instances of the bank serial number.  Use of the treasury serial number was discontinued after August 22, 1925 and geographical sort numbers were discontinued in 1924.  The $20 with serial number 451123 is well into the range ordered by The Mellon NB (serial numbers for plain backs of 3X$10-$20 were 249001-696905).  The $5 & $10 red seals were printed prior to the 1903 rotary serial number printing machine (the $20 red seal was not).  Your notes span > 20 years, so not too surprising that the cashier and president changed out over that period of time.  Date backs were replaced by plain backs as I recall mostly at the expiration of the Aldrich-Vreeland act in 1915.  So we know Mitchell and A.W. Mellon were still in charge at that time.  Mitchell gave us a much bolder swirl over the i in his signature on the Date Back.

What's confusing to me is why that $5 Plain Back still has a June 3, 1902 date as I think it was printed after 1925 (the two bank serial numbers indicate this) which spans over 20 years (the length of a charter shouldn't exceed 20 years), so it should display the next charter date (for the Mellon NB ~June 4, 1922 and updated register of the Treasury and Treasurer signatures).  The K4 plate indicates treasury (engraving) ran through the alphabet 4 times for the Mellon.  So why not update the later plates with the new charter date and Treasury signatures? [recall my Salem, OH, Charter 43 post a number of months ago] I think the answer is that treasury just wasn't very consistent.

There's a $5 PB SN 684881/N886932E with Lewis and R.B. Mellon signatures on ebay.

The $10 is A2 radar 84348, so A284348.  Statistically, I find that too often in the pool of notes that survived, just to annoy me no doubt :-).  

Is that a K4 Plate on the PB $5?  Good to see your posts again!

I liked that note too.  It has the misplaced town name going for it as well--Berlin. And it has a vice president's signature.  Can't argue the Star either.  I have a nice 1902 Date Back from Ch. 4620, SN 676/B464018A pp A/184 in a PMG 30EPQ holder. I liked the short radar bank SN. Their 3rd charter date was Aug. 19, 1911 (vs Aug. 26, 1891 above), so it has Napier | McClung signatures.  It's actually fairly common as a 1902 DB.  Heritage sold my note as well as part of the Chuck Westfahl Collection.  I just made a Wisc.1902 type set <--click to follow link--as I also have a Green Bay $5 1902 DB in PMG 35EPQ (I don't like 1 note sets).

Did you ever notice that if you could remove the 5 from the SN, you'd have 439439.  

I thought that $20 would end up in your collection and it makes a very nice set, somehow all from the C plates.  Did you notice the difference in the fonts on the $20 as compared to the $5 and $10?  It has the new numbering font introduced in 1903, as expected given the Treasury Number starting with V.  I added a Quarryville, PA $20 Red Seal in PMG 15 to my collection.

I never compiled that list of charters that issued notes during the brief period napier | thompson.  Personally, I place a premium on the signature combination (as does Friedburg), but I think the population of the bank really drives the prices.  Since the Warren NB was a prolific issuer, you can find Ch. 4879 notes at what I consider a bargain.  In Kelly's reference he talks about collectors prior to census data collecting by Fr. # and not by town names and bank names.  PA was the state with the largest number of charters, so it has a low premium factor.  The $10 Plain Back, Warren, PA Ch 4879, SN 52983/X778493 pp B/139 in PMG 25 in my signature set cost me $248 after certification fees.  My note has the treasury SN, so it was printed before Aug. 22, 1925.  Your note has the EPQ designation and better eye appear for sure.  I got mine from eBay and I thought I paid a good price, not a great price, but I wanted the $10 to go with my $5s.

On 12/24/2018 at 1:58 PM, Sheik Sheck said:

I have no connection to Pittsburgh. Can't stand the Steelers. Just like Ch 252 because I thought I could build a complete set. But found out that might be more doable with Ch 2491. And Ch 6301 I started collecting  only because of the Mellon signature. You looking for these?

I'm not a strong buyer of small size nationals.  The Warren NB was a prolific issuer.  However, I will go after large size on this charter.  I think I may have bid on those notes when they came up at auction.  I just have the one small Type 1 $5 that's in my Warren signature set.  We should do some trades!

I just realized that Albion is in Orleans County, in Western NY under Lake Ontario.  

Today my notes moved into Quality Control.  I checked on the turn around time for economy and it is 28 working days.  With Veterans Day and Thanksgiving Holidays, it's been about 28 working days.

And one working day later, notes are in finalized ready to ship.  I have the grades.  I'm happy as they are pretty much what I expected or better.  When I receive my notes, I'll scan and post and provide a link here... for anyone that is interested :-)  By the way, did you grade my $20 PB from New Castle, PA (above)?  SPOILER ALERT-- It's in a comment-free PMG 25 holder now.  I had it as a F-VF as the back was better looking.  I'm quite happy with a Very Fine 25 for this scarce, Western PA note.

On the 24th, my notes arrived.  I've updated two sets with a few of the notes including the New Castle $20.  Several of the large notes can be found here:  https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=20872&SelectedTab=SetListing and my Warren NB notes are mostly all here:  https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1184&Tab=list

My PA small size nationals mostly ended up here:  https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=20873&amp;SelectedTab=SetListing

Luckily for me (a collector), I'm keeping these notes for a long time and I don't need the cash flow from them.  So, the wait just builds up my anticipation.  I get to compare my grading skills with team PMG's professional grading skills.  So all fun for me.  I do suggest improvements to PMG, like adding 'research' as a link to the PMG tab (so you could get to verify PMG number) here on collectors society, just like you find on the NGC and CGC tabs.  People say the government is slow, but PMG implementing this simple suggestion--slower!  The Kanban solution shouldn't be too hard especially if PMG already records the date/time a submission is received into a database, and again when processed into the 'scheduled for grading' stage and then date/time the submission enters QC.  Maybe weekly, update the average times for various tiers.  

I haven't submitted notes to PCGS although I do have a set or two in their note registry.  PCGS has sooooo many more categories for folks who collect nationals than PMG.  I've started a few as signature sets here at PMG and created one--the rainbow set (see https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1191&amp;Tab=list) which unlike nicely toned coins means town or bank names with a color reference (i.e. Orange, CA, Brownsville, TX or The Blackstone NB of Uxbridge, MA (Charter 1022 is one of my favorite notes)).   Also I started a First through Tenth NB signature set here:  https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1229&amp;Tab=list

  I'm happy to hear that PMG compares favorably to PCGS's grading times.

I meant to ask if anyone has a note dated Dec. 25 on a National?  Post it please... it will go nicely with my New Year's Eve note.  Kelly shows one from Christmas as I recall in the 6th ed. of Nat'l Bank Notes, it's from The Citizens NB of Ripley, OH.

Just google Don Kelly national bank and you'll get his web site donckelly.com.  He was running a special ($81) on the 6th ed. Nat'l Bank Notes plus a Friedberg plus free ship that ends the end of 2018.  He shipped mine priority and I had it in just a few days.  As I recall, I emailed him using the address on his web site and he called me.  I got to chat with him for a bit on the phone about my Salem, OH notes.  And I paid over the phone with a card.  Not sure when the 7th edition is out or if Don is planning a 7th.  The 6th comes with a CD with the Hickman project registry.  I like the data on bank officers, although its not complete.  Sorry I didn't respond earlier as I didn't see a new post here.  So, you know I like that note a lot--you going to send it in to get your name and the radar noted on the holder??  I checked the auction site and I was 3rd high bidder :-(

Your red seals are not replacement notes.  The crooked serial number was just interesting.  I wonder if the old machinery was more likely to print a crooked SN.  Red seals are tricky (as are Brown Backs) as far as replacements.  You have to have a serial number that was issued in 1903, or later, after the introduction of the new machinery.  The serial numbers on your notes are too low, so were issued in 1902 or early in 1903.  They pre-date the introduction of the new machinery.  So they correctly show the old font on the numbers and are not replacement notes (more correctly, there's no way to tell if they were replaced).  

You can find replacement notes on red seals, most commonly on SN 1s.  On $5s look for Treasury SNs greater than or equal to A530328.  On $10, it's a bit trickier.  If the note was from a bank that ordered sheets as $10 $10 $10 $20, then the SN must be greater than or equal to B241777.  If the bank ordered sheets of $10 $10 $10 $10 only, then all serial numbers are in play to check--if it has the old font, it's a replacement.  I would also assume the serial number on those 10s would be >B241777 as well.  The Mellon NB ordered sheets as $10 $10 $10 $20 for red seals. For 50s and 100s, the SN has to be greater than or equal to A92661 and the Mellon NB issued those as well.

I made up a jpeg with all the info I need to quickly refer to when scanning auctions for replacement notes.  So far, no success :-(   They aren't very common. Happy to share it with you--send me an email.

So, Ch. 2941 is the First NB of Pierre, SD--that's another of your favorites??  My only note from SD is from Mitchell as a plain back.  By the way, I use ddr for double die reverse and 70 because of a perfect grade and my favorite date, 1870.  

My Kelly reference says that Charter 2491 did not issue $5 1902 Plain Backs and no 1902 Red Seals or Date Backs.  They only issued $50s and $100s using the 2nd title (as shown above).  You'll have to go back to Series of 1882 to find a $5 here, but there are Brown Backs, Date Backs, and Value Backs.

Going through my new National Bank Notes 6th Edition by Kelly and here's why we have plain backs with different Fr. numbers (yet same denomination) for some charters.  Acts of July 12, 1882 and April 12, 1902 extended charters for existing banks for another 20 years.  Salem 43 had to liquidate in 1882 because their charter was about to expire and because congress was a bit late and didn't pass a new act until July.  Thus Salem obtained a new charter, 2691, and issued Brown backs, Red Seals and 1902 Date Backs.  In September 12, 1910, Salem was able to regain it's old charter number 43 and issued 1902 Date Backs dated 11 Apr. 1902--this date represents the last 20 year extension of this bank's charter.  One stipulation of the Acts was that extended banks must issue 'distinctly different' notes.  So 10 Apr. 1922 comes and Salem extends its charter. New plates with this date, 10 Apr. 1922, were created along with the current Treasury combo of Speelman and White (that was sufficiently 'distinctly different' (Congress didn't define distinctly different, so any difference ought to have sufficed)).  They also got to restart the serial numbers back to 1 and went on to issue 12,365 sheets!  So, it's possible that SN 5226 and 5227 also exist as $20 Plain Backs and Fr. 635!!  The Act of July 1, 1922 extended lifetimes of all national banks for 99 years, thereby ending the need for new series to the chagrin of this collector.

Sheik,  Nice notes (of course). You have about 50 charters to choose from with Pittsburgh, PA (so far I've only seen 252 and 6301 :-).  For Charter 6301, I have a nice Ty 1 $5 in PCGS 63 and then Fines for a 1902 DB and a PB (also $5s and in PCGS holders).  That is one of the most crooked treasury serial numbers I've seen on your $10 Red Seal.  Did you see PMG's email on replacement notes?  In 1903 BEP introduced new machinery to apply the serial numbers more efficiently and the fonts changed compared to the old machinery.  The new ones were hard to set up so any replacement notes would use the old machinery (I'm not describing it nearly as well as you might find over on SPMC's web site).  Both red seals shown have the old style fonts which are correct based on their relatively low serial numbers.  But you can tell based on the serial number and the font that these were produced prior to the changeover in 1903.  Compare the 2 on the $10 Red Seal with the 2 on your Plain Back.  So that's really an old crooked treasury serial number.  Charter 6301 is fun because you get an autograph from a Mellon; maybe not Carnegie, but still a Mellon.

The Warren National Bank was a prolific issuer for a small Western PA town.  My wife has to convince me that I can't own them all.  For some reason it took me 7 months to see your notes posted here--quite nice!  I'm looking for a Type 2 on Charter 4879.  My recent submissions just moved up one notch in the PMG queue for grading.  They may be home before the new year (and posted to my signature set on the Warren NB.