ColonialCoinsUK

Great notes and information as always!

I was starting to look at more modern specimen notes for my collection as there are surprising few graded examples out there - now your posts have forced me into it

I also collect Mexican notes and at the moment they are from all over time and place as the variations are immense - I am still finding many unrecorded control letters etc in the Revolutionary issues which is turning into a lifetime rabbit hole but it keeps the mind active.

Graded notes are even more of a challenge and, like you, I may have to submit a few to fill in gaps - as some of the Registry Sets have lots of slots and/or have almost impossible notes in them I too can see a few Signature sets on the Horizon

Good luck

On 6/29/2022 at 10:08 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Wow! Only three left, maybe. Are there any known? If so are they in private hands or museum displays? 

No idea - I hope they still exist and are in an old collection somewhere. It is on the 'to-find-out' list

On 6/29/2022 at 9:04 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

That's a big negative!  The 500 pesos is a real looker but with such a low printing (I read 200?), it would probably be out of my budget. 

It's always interesting to me that a great looking specimen, remainder, etc. can often be many multiples less than a really ratty note that was issued/circulated. I understand the attraction and the premium attached with a circulated note of this type and similar notes, but am more often than not pretty content with my specimen, remainder, etc. It's all about the looks with some people. 

I agree as I find the design interesting and this is often best seen on Specimens - they do tend to put holes in them and SPECIMEN (or the equivalent) in big red letters on top which often distracts Remainders are a great compromise.

Apparently the records for the 500 pesos note have 200 printed but 197 incinerated so maybe just 3 issued notes escaped Hoping one turns up at a local UK auction

It is great to see that they are still operating even if the plan gets changed!

Fascinating - the various 0 Euro notes seem to be popular.

I am always suprised how fast people produce things - I can't do anything that quick

It looks like TDLR are usually a great source of information however given the thread on Venezuelan specimen notes over at IBNS it appears they are without an archivist at the moment and therefore are not able to help.

From their FAQs at https://www.delarue.com/faqs

Very interesting subject and an impressive note.  

I see there is an article in the latest issue of the IBNS journal on fake overprints on the Polish 1940 100 Zlotych note which now means I will have to look at all the Mexico Revolutionary overprints although they are not even close in terms of design and detail

From my own research the President appears to be Edgardo Suarez Contreras but I still have no idea who the others are!

Front issued date 1971 + Juan S. Quinteros signature on the back + Large seal =
GN - GW
QA - QJ
HQ - HZ
PK - PT

Front issued date 1972 + Juan S. Quinteros signature on the back + Large seal =
IA - IJ

Front issued date 1972 + Jorge A. Dowson signature on the back + Small seal =
UB - UK
EF - EO
RK and RL

Just to complicate matters the signature and seal positions on the back also vary but it is starting to look like P115 may be simpler than some of the other 1 colon issues and that's before even looking at other denominations. It may be many years before notes appear to allow all the missing gaps to be filled. As you suggest TDLR may be able to help as could the Central Bank for El Salvador, it appears that such information is surprisingly difficult to find - it must be there somewhere though!

Given my interest in the earlier notes I thought putting a few 'modern' sets together would be a worthwhile, and simple, side project.

Interesting - I had discounted Option 2 due to the X and I thought 6 was genuine due to the b rather than option 4. Although I thought the flowers between and above the horns in the bottom right corner were better in Option 4

Counterfeits vs varieties - the ultimate question!

On 5/22/2022 at 1:34 PM, Love Collection said:

Ive been told that there exists collections at least in Nicaragua that span generations, and they have no need or want to sell. I would imagine that such collections exists in other parts of the world such as Mexico also!

That wouldn't surprise me - it would seem to be a generational undertaking! It is certainly the case for Napoleonic coins and medals housed in old European collections.

On 5/22/2022 at 1:34 PM, Love Collection said:

Nicaragua has very limited specialised issues….and I have seen very few that have come up for sale over the years. I had the opportunity to see the below beauty as it was offered to me about 4 years back but I just wasn’t in a position to part with the cash for it! From what I’m told there is only one other known example at the National Bank museum that is in far worse condition!

Great example, issued notes seem to be a real challenge - I've got the cow though

On 5/20/2022 at 12:10 PM, Love Collection said:

And yes if your putting together a Latin American set that can be a daunting process! are you trying to collect a series from each country or how are you trying to break it down? 

If you need any help or guidance with Nicaragua please don’t hesitate to ask. I know that a lot of the ungraded inflationary Nicaraguan notes can still be picked up for cheap, but there are even some modern 1990s notes that are becoming increasingly hard to find.

I have picked up some other neighbouring Central American countries notes mainly to take advantage of combined shipping! however I know that I’ll probably never be able to fill out complete sets.

Mainly Mexico, and Revolutionary where there are still plenty of gaps in known control letters, serial number ranges etc. I find all the early notes (Specialised catalog) interesting so I seem to have some from various places in Central and South America, although it looks like nothing from Nicaragu at the moment so I may have to do something about that

There are lots of short Banco series for these but I have also been looking at a complete run for a few countries - Guatemala seems to be winning at the moment with only >90% of the notes still needed for P6 to current. I wonder if anyone has ever put a complete collection together for any of these countries, I think I read somewhere that the biggest collections ever of Mexican Revolutionary notes are ~60%

On 5/18/2022 at 1:50 PM, Love Collection said:

I was so frustrated about a month back when I was outbid on a 70* note. Which was the first Nicaraguan 70* I had seen available in years!!

Then as luck would have it a Nica collector friend of mine tells me he has a a pair of 70* notes and he would be willing to part with one.

Then luck shines again and another completely different note pops up a few days later and I ended up bagging that one also!

I noticed that there was a Nicaragua 70 P178As at the upcoming World Banknote auction?

I knew putting sets together for Mexico and some of the other Latin America countries would be a real challenge - turns out that was a massive understatement! As such your Nicaragua set is very impressive, particularly with all the detailed information which is fascinating,

Great notes, congratulations on the ones you did get, I tend to prefer the older ones.

One of the reasons I started collecting more notes than coins was that the coin prices were getting beyond silly, almost 3x, or higher, over the last few years. As my original area of interest was British Colonial issues it rapidly became apparent that the cost of many such notes was just as bad hence Mexico and Latin America (also less well documented and therefore things to discover, and there are plenty that are affordable).

A key thing I learnt the hard way from collecting coins was you have to grab some of the rarer items when they appear or that might be it for many many years - and then next time you can't afford it (a pattern gold sixpence instantly springs to mind which would now require a re-mortgage )

On 5/8/2022 at 2:08 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Which one did you feel was the most authentic looking?

No. 5, but the top corners didn't look correct.

On 5/8/2022 at 2:08 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Thanks! The biggest challenge will be me actually doing anything and/or finishing it. I'm a terrible procrastinator and LOVE starting new projects before finishing what's at hand.  

SNAP! but my meds are starting to work now

Very detailed study - you should definitely put together the future 'reference' The challenge may be getting auction houses to adopt the findings!

So I guess that none of them are authentic, possibly one - if this is wrong I claim that it is late here and I have enough trouble reading a small screen anyway

Really nice design and colours,

I too have noticed that completing a graded banknote set is going to be a real challenge for most countries and will involve submitting lots of notes directly, and not just the early ones Good luck with putting your set together.

On 4/26/2022 at 9:44 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

That's neat! We're they pretty easy to care for and do they like company?

Easy to look after but they need plenty of space as they get to about a foot/30cm long and will fight each other, great fun feeding them by hand, making sure it is not your hand

On 4/26/2022 at 5:05 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

What did you think about the Mexico 50 Pesos note winning IBNS 2021 Bank Note Of The Year?

That was a no-brainer as we used to keep lots of axolotls as pets

Now I have to get a graded example!

On 4/18/2022 at 11:28 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

With the fall of Krause and the Standard references seemingly stagnating where else can one go in hopes getting new varieties added to the list?  World coin collectors were always at a disadvantage when it came to places to turn for verification of varieties or errors, when compared to U.S. collecting resources, but when you're a world banknote collector you're really are out on an island. 

Most numismatic journals seem to mainly cover ancients and medieval now, having said that the IBNS journal seems to publish the discovery of new varieties etc - this may be an option? You can then cite this to PMG

Very well spotted!

I think a longer term question is whether NGC/PMG will recognise such varieties of world issues on the label, as they do for US issues?

For example there are well established varieties of sixpences which are just attributed by date so you have to check the actual coin even if it is a slab - of course this should be what you do anyway and a great way of finding rare varieties.

A friend was recently shocked to find out that countries did not have perfect records of all their coin and banknote production given it was money

On 4/12/2022 at 10:28 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

 The Fates do toy with us sometimes. 

I saw the Jersey and Guernsey notes over at CT, anything else turn up? 

 

There also seem to be some agriculture/horticulture medals but these will need a bit of research - some even look like they could be silver

Great 5 pesos note! That series is even more complex and extensive than the 'dos caritas' and apparently people do collect all the series/dates etc for all the denominations.

The bottom two sets are both popular Revolution issues so I would hope that there would be no reason that PMG would not be able to add a 'dos caritas' set. As I also have a few of these notes I would probably have suggested it but as this would probably be based on the Pick numbers (S527/M918 to S538/M928) and I don't have the full set yet

There are a number of other Revolution issues which would make good sets but I expect that many of the potential Revolution sets do not have enough slots or graded examples available, however the 'dos caritas' set would be fine. Having said that sets of control letters, stamps etc would probably be more suitable as a Signature Set and no doubt require submission of lots of notes for grading - this would be fantastic to see and an immense challenge with more than 1000 notes .  Anyone know if this has ever been done at all as a single collection

I do agree that splitting the Specialised Issues into 'Bancos' and 'Revolution' would be appropriate if more sets are added.

Languages have never been my strong point but I can figure out some Spanish names and numbers - I couldn't even attempt anything with a different alphabet so Asian languages etc are completely out, Russian, German and Ukranian is impressive . My excuse is that my brother must have got all the required genes as he speaks multiple languages and even does some translation work on the side.

So with my limited vocabulary it looks like I have 18 notes covering 15 blocks and there are only an extra 7 blocks that I am currently aware of - yes a whole SEVEN notes. Given an issue of 100,000, albeit with alot of circulation, I would hope that a few more examples survived and they are out there somewhere. The other denominations and series appear to have even less examples!!

A sequence would be:-

00001-20000 ?
12001-14000 UGT
24001-26000 ?
36001-38000 UGT
48001-50000 UGT
60001-62000 ?
72001-74000 ?
84001-86000 UGT
96001-98000 ITE (vert)?

I would guess/predict notes with numbers in the missing blocks also have UGT as the control letters. For comparison 58-60K, 70-72K, 82-84K and 94-96K are all MA-A so the earlier blocks 10-12K, 22-24K, 34-36K and 46-48K may also be MA-A or at least all be the same. Could the apparent blocks of 2000 notes correspond to how they were shipped from the printer? there are examples where this happened rather than just consecutive numbers making up a shipment - another security measure? or it could all be rubbish.

How to crack the code? In the dos caritos 1 peso series some control letters are VILL-A, SCO-N, NCI-M, and FRA-L. So this would be FRA-NCI-SCO-VILL-A otherwise known as Pancho Villa - the only person I was familiar with before looking into the history of the period. In the 5 pesos dos caritos series some of the control letters seem to be the initials of the leading insurgents at the time F-V (the infamous Francisco Villa again), J-E-R (José E. Rodríguez) E-A-B (Eugenio Aguirre Benavides) etc, etc.

So names, initials, places etc seem to be an option - is L-AR referring to Leon (Domingo) Arrieta the leading revolutionary and short-lived Governer of Durango and is MA-A his brother Mariano Arrieta??

I am so glad that things are now electronic with 'saved searches' so it is now a waiting game and maybe a few more gaps will be filled in over the next 30 years or so.