ColonialCoinsUK

My thoughts exactly and there does seem to be plenty of information available for certain series e.g. the dos caritos issues, however I was also surprised at the many gaps in the data for a popular collecting area like Mexico - having said that the data on the fractional real coinage has only recently been improved with the excellent books by Brad Yonaka. There are even plenty of discoveries to be made in Napoleonic issues where you would think the records were detailed and available.

There seems to be even less info for the rest of Latin America, which are the only ones I have looked at so far, but I expect it is the same for most of the world - Ukraine??. Although I expect individual collectors may have the data somewhere - like you I tend to (well try to ) record such information and this is now much easier with Ebay and auction records available online. I should say that Simon Prendergast, at the US Mexican Numismatic Association (usmex.org), has been great allowing such findings to update the central records.

Back to the Durango 5 peso issue M1495, there are no graded examples (which probably doesn't help) with the best that I am aware of being two notes in VF with the rest falling into the 'tatty' category. I think the code letters were changed every 2000 notes with the overall sequence repeating every 12000 notes, for example:-

UGT/ITE (vert)*
OIY (vert)/L-AR (vert)
LPS/EID
ERO-/MIR/GON
ERA-/GFA
MA-A

*Almost all relevant blocks that I am aware of largely have a single set of control letters, in a consistent position on the note, however it appears that some numbers (last ~20000?) were issued at different times and it gets a bit random at that point e.g.  should the single example of ITE(vert) actually be in the next block which would then have all the vertical control letters together. I need to find more examples to confirm/fill in the gaps. As you suggest I think this group of notes was a collector trying to put different examples together as this range in a natural accumulation would be extremely unlikely. Several other group lots that I acquired were also made up of a range of series/control letters etc - I wish I had also got the last lot that was available!

[some other Mexican issues change every 2000 and both horizontal and vertical control letters are known]

Fill an empty slot in a collection or upgrade an existing one??? A key problem I have had for coins and now seem to have for banknotes. My coins and notes are usually old enough that top grades 66-70 has never been an issue with 58-63 more realistic however I have recently bought a few more 'modern' notes so I too now have this dilemma although the top grade available may still not go to 68 and then there my only be 1 or 2 examples in the population report.

Having initially started looking at British Colonial notes, to match my coins, there seem to be plenty available although the top grades attracted very high premiums. By contrast I was surprised that the numbers of graded notes for most Latin American countries was surprising low with the exception of Mexico and Colombia. Most countries have less than 3000 in total and with many types having no graded examples at all. Completion of any set looks like I may have to work out how to submit notes to PMG.

We are all mad

Fascinating details as some of the Mexican notes have red or black numbers!

I would go for a change in colour due to thickness (concentration) and/or age due to oxidation/polymerisation/exposure to light/reaction with the paper which usually results in pigments going darker with time - my chemistry background means I now want to figure this out Any idea what the inks were?

'a stylized depiction of the man himself' - this makes much more sense.

I have watched many documentaries on ancient cultures, and often end up doing so more than once, as I seem to pick up on different aspects each time. I would have been happy to have a career studying these and nearly did - still ended up solving problems and working out what is going on, just as a scientist instead.

It would be great to have a collection of ancient coins but I really would find picking one area of focus an impossibility - and I have tried

Female figures also seem to be used to represent cities and/or states - this is certainly the case in Europe. It doesn't appear to be the common representations of liberty, justice, victory etc as the items usually associated with these do not seem to be there and what is covers a range of things.

Well spotted, the coat of arms for Veracruz does have a pair of pillars on it so I am leaning towards the lady representing the city/state.

This could all be completely wrong of course but adding banknotes to my collection has just highlighted how little I know about anything.

Edit. My first thought was that it could be the roman goddess Pax - often seated holding an olive branch. Great - I now have to see if I can find whether the American Bank Note company call her anything?

Although I have a few specimen and remainder notes, and therefore nice examples of the artwork, it turns out they are often cheaper than the equivalent grade circulated note if you can even fine one. So far just the smaller, and thus common, denominations

Having said that I am waiting for some notes that are at the completely other end of the quality spectrum but I am hoping they will be interesting for a different reason

Thanks - I had a look at Numismaster - seems to have even less info than the original catalogue! Unfortunately such errors/omissions in the main reference that people use means that PMG have a few incorrect designations on their labels for some of the notes I have.

Mexican Paper Money is much much better, with usmex.org even more complete, but then the three sources do not always agree on the basics such as known Series etc. I am trying/failing to resist finding new dates, series, control letters, known number ranges and so on but they seem to be all over the place.

It also looks like there are many countries without a specialist reference book either - great opportunity for a collector who may already have a lot of the info.

So far my only note with a train as a key element - from Scottishmoney on CoinTalk :-

'It is an "American 4-4-0" a very commonly used locomotive up until the 1880s in the USA and later in Mexico and incredibly some are still used for yard shunting in Cuba. As traffic increased after the Civil War larger and more powerful locomotives were needed with more tractive effort meaning larger wheel "bogey" arrangements to pull larger trains. Mexican railways largely could get by using the 4-4-0 wheel arrangement unless it was pulled over mountains etc like the Topolobampo Cubre Canyon railroad that needed more tractive pull'

At the moment die varieties on coins looks like a much easier undertaking than differences in medals and banknotes  - the more I find out about each piece the more gaps appear in the references Given the situation with Krause is there anyway to update the Specialised Issues, SCWPM etc as it appears to be full of errors??

On 1/28/2022 at 11:57 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Well you certainly pick a series with a lot of varieties, a guy could go nuts with these. Over a 1,000! 

 

I'm not quite that mad, although others may disagree. There are so many other notes issued during the period I am after a range of designs, even one per state for the Bancos would be a challenge (I only have 5 states at the moment) with many of the notes issued during the revolution proving even more difficult. The collection will no doubt be random/shambles/eclectic and, for many issues, complete sets are nothing but a dream but at least there is no need to worry about certain numbers etc as there are so few examples available - the 'dos caritas' series and the Banco de Mexico later issues being almost the only exceptions!

I have had copies of SCWPM and the Specialised Issues for years although Mexican World Paper Money was more recent, and in colour. As my coins do drift further south I ask myself are there equivalent references for the rest of central and south amercia!?

On 1/3/2022 at 11:01 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

That's a good question, and maybe one for Jennifer in the Ask PMG section of the Forum.

Reply seems to be whether they are still redeemable at the bank or not - so it looks like older contemporary counterfeits should be OK. No population report for these though!

On 1/3/2022 at 11:01 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Any interest in banknotes my friend? I assume you have at least a few, most coin collectors do, and if true we like seeing stuff like that over here. 

There may be a Journal Entry or two in the future 

Mike, very interesting as someone who has an interest in die varieties for coins.

I thought PMG didn't grade counterfeits - I assume this applies to modern counterfeits rather than contemporary ones? Their FAQs don't seem to differentiate but I may be looking in the wrong place!