Fenntucky Mike

Well, I can talk about this now that I'm out and the auction is almost over. A seldom seen Ukrainian bank note popped up for auction recently ( A PICK # 50!), it was in a PMG holder and was in good condition. I felt this was a good time (for me) to place a fairly serious bid on the note, I placed a minimum bid on it last week Wednesday, I was outbid by Friday then waited and bid again yesterday. My last bid was over the auction estimate but was not strong enough as I didn't overtake the current bidder. I thought long and hard about continuing to bid but I decided to put this note on hold, similar to the 50 Hryven Commemorative note (Pick 125) that I've been continually kicking down the road. Once again the main argument to myself is "more is better", meaning that there are several Ukrainian bank notes out there right now that will make for a more complete collection. As I've said previously this is one of two key notes in the series, this and P125, are note/s I may never get. I don't feel nearly as torn passing on this note as I have on the P125, probably because the P125 is constantly staring me in the face. It's too bad, because this is an awesome note with a great story. We'll meet again Pick 50, oh we'll meet again but right now I just have to walk away. Here is the 1942, 2 Karbowanez note, it's a beauty. A brief synopsis of the story behind the note is. The note was printed and loaded onto pallets and into boxcars of an awaiting train. The train departed and was in transit from Germany to Ukraine when it was attacked and destroyed (including almost all of the notes) by Ukrainian partisans. If I ever acquire this note I'll do a proper write up on it.. Someday.

Yes, lowball! That should be an easy one to add and not disrupt the current registry structure. Fr# is another good one.

So if it was up to you, what sets would you add? I read mention of denomination sets, I think that would be a good start. Any others? Would you want it to go as far as State sets, counties, individual banks? In general I agree, the more sets the better, and the better for me to look at them. I feel that more sets helps to keep the registry more organized and easier to view, enjoy and interpret.

This is a follow up to a previous Journal entry where I mentioned a story about "borrowed" specie, see Journal entry "But it was obsolete before I opened the box" for additional info on The Bank of Allegan and Michigan "wildcat" banks in general. Here is an Obsolete banknote from another wildcat bank, The Bank Of Singapore (Michigan), organized Dec. 7, 1837, closed 1839. The settlement of Singapore was established in 1836 and subsequently abandoned by 1875 when the last saw mill was moved. Nothing visible remains of the settlement as anything that was left behind including buildings was buried by the shifting dune sands located along Lake Michigan. The Bank of Singapore issued notes in denominations of $1, $2, $3 & $5, which was common for the time period and type of bank. The bills were printed by Rawdon, Wright & Hatch of New York, the denominations were printed on one side of a single sheet, these sheets were then shipped to the Bank and stored as remainders, as notes were needed the sheets were cut then signed and dated by the Cashier (Rob Hill) and Bank President (Daniel S. Wilder), both signatures are present on this note. It is common to find 1837 notes dated Dec 25 and Jan 1, this note is dated Jan 10, 1838. Records indicate that banknotes valued at $15,952 were put into circulation, this would be equal to about 1,450 sheets or roughly 5,800 individual bills if complete sheets were cut. The hard money or specie reserve (which should have totaled $15,000 based on the bank's capital stock, but probably wasn't even when it was present) was kept in the vault in an old nail keg. As was common at this time Banks pooled their specie and shipped it from bank to bank ahead of the inspectors who were there to verify these banks had enough specie on hand to back the notes being issued, this leads to the story mentioned in a previous Journal entry. The Bank of Allegan and the Bank of Singapore being "neighbors" commonly pooled their specie, after the state bank inspector viewed and counted the pooled specie at the Bank of Allegan the bag of gold was quickly packed up and given to a local Native American, who loaded it into his canoe to transport it down the Kalamazoo River to The Bank of Singapore, which was the inspectors next stop. The inspector was in route to Singapore via horseback and roads being nonexistent in those days, traveling by canoe down the river was the fastest mode of travel. The Native American, paddling swiftly to beat the bank inspector, hit an obstacle in the river and capsized. The bag of gold sank to the bottom in a particularly deep part of the river, the man righted his canoe and rushed ahead to tell the Bank officials at Singapore what happened, immediately a plan was devised. The local blacksmith began to fashion a drag hook to retrieve the gold, in the meantime a dispatch was sent to the town of New Richmond, centrally located between the two banks at a ferry crossing. The inspector was plied with food and drink, a party was staged and night's logging offered. Meanwhile, downstream the men of Singapore were using the hook on the end of a dragline to recover the bag of gold from the river, the gold was pulled from the river and sent to the bank to dry out. Word was sent that the inspector could proceed and a short time later (maybe the next day) the inspector and specie met again at the Singapore Bank. Another story involved a local merchant who purchased a supply of boots, boots being in short supply and the locals being desperate for them tried to pay with banknotes from The Bank of Singapore, the merchant refused to accept the notes. This did not suit the officers of the bank so they promised to redeem their bills from the merchant with eastern money in time for him to remit to his dealers. The parties agreed and the entire stock of boots was sold out, amounting to about $600. On the day the Bank was supposed to redeem the money, they were unprepared and pushed the date back, this went on for over a month. Having run out of time and at his wit's end the merchant knowing where the cashier resided and suspecting he carried the "good money" of the bank with him decided to wake him one morning. The merchant went to the clerks room, entered and locked the door, then woke the clerk, laid the wildcat bills on the bed, drew his pistol and demanded the exchange be made then and there. Suffice to say the clerk made the exchange, having raised his pillow and removing a roll containing about $1,000 (the total genuine capital of the bank), $600 was given to the merchant leaving the bank with $400 of good money. The charter of the Bank of Singapore was formally annulled by the Michigan Legislature on February 16, 1842, along with charters of most of the other wildcat banks of Michigan. One evening several locals were invited to the home of one of the officers of the Bank of Singapore to witness the destruction of the bills on hand at the bank at the time of suspension. There was a 4" x 4" table covered with bills in packages lying in piles from three to six inches deep. These were burned in a stove and "sufficed for boiling a tea kettle twice", or so the story goes. Remainders are fairly common with these notes, including uncut sheets. I've read stories and first hand accounts of people lining their boots with uncut sheets or stuffing them into the cracks of walls to keep drafts out or pillows. Signed notes are much harder to come by as most (it seems) were destroyed. It's not a bad looking note, with a depiction of Justice & Liberty on the left, a factory and canal on the right and a depiction of a port in the center. They definitely didn't skimp out on the ink for these notes.

Well, I finally hit the 50% completion mark in my Ukraine Complete 1917-Date, P1-Date set and here's the note that did it the humble P#81a. Ahhh, always feels good to hit a milestone along the way in your collecting journey. I acquired my first Ukrainian banknote back in 2017, my first TPG note in 2018 (I can't even remember which ones they were now), started my registry set here in 2019 and hit 50% completion this week. It's been a great experience so far, I've learned more about banknotes, banking/finance, history and Ukraine than I ever thought I would. I've expanded my contacts in regards to people (some in Ukraine) and places to acquire these notes (some are hard to find). The people at PMG are always nice and helpful and the people here on the Forums have been great so far, I'm getting way more out of this than I thought I would. Thanks everyone. Next goal? I'm thinking 75%, if I can get there in the next 2 years I'll be doing alright. I might include completing a short Zimbabwe set in that time frame as well, we'll see. I have a couple of Journal entries roughed out, I'm just waiting to get a few things back in the mail and to see how a couple of things fall in place this week. There could be some interesting developments happening in the next week with this set.

How do you get caught in a country as corrupt as Zimbabwe when your a relative of the man in charge. Did she walk through the one terminal/scanner that wasn't on Mnangagwa's payroll? In my mind I'm imagining the gold bars bursting from the bottom of the handbag and falling to the floor for all the airport to see and hear. Then, sheepishly, she tires to calmly pick them up and place them back in the handbag, by that time everyone is gathered around cell phones out video taping the whole thing. Finally, the guard is like "Ok, that's enough. Let's go.".

Maybe, if it is still there in a few weeks. I went a little crazy with my mad money this last week, need to build it back up.

So using the seal to fourth digit identifier would not be accurate 100% of the time, you would also need to take into account the font, spacing, tilt, "rubber stamped" look etc.? Are there some instances were there are no discernible differences between a normal production note and a replacement?

That's neat, having all the varieties. That was a hell of a get, I think. I was paying attention to that note, same thing, I couldn't justify it to myself at $190 (not even close). I did not see it get relisted for an auction starting at $100, I might have thought about it a little more if I did see it, I don't think I would have bid on it. Guess we'll never know. How far do you think you'll take your collection, specifically, will you or do you look for replacements and/or specimens? I haven't looked around but how readily available are Zimbabwe specimens?

I did. It looks like it was a short sale, it's back at $1,000. I'm guessing it'll follow the same sequence as your P-1d until someone is willing to pony up. The only question now is how low will it go.

I'm looking at the new $20 now and since you mentioned it, yeah, the elephant is not depicted well. The legs seem to long, the body is baggy, ill defined and to offset to much to one side and the head looks to small. That being said, Hmmmm, I think I like the new $20 reverse better than the P-4. I like the perspective better on the new $20.

That is too funny! Sounds like you had/are having a good day, being around family and everyone's happy and well, that's the best. Getting a funny story out of it, well that's the icing on the cake. The note is pretty cool and a really good gift to boot. Congrats.

When I first started collecting Ukrainian banknotes, three or four years ago, the first purchase I made was the Standard Catalog of World Paper Money (Modern). hereafter Krause. This book gave me the general information I was looking for, what did some of the notes look like, how many different notes are there, etc.. This basic info gave me an idea of #1 did I like the notes (are they interesting and attractive to me), #2 how much was this going to cost (how many different issues and how rare), #3 how long will it take and will I be able to obtain most of the notes (availability). I then used the information in Krause and cross referenced to online sources like eBay and a few different auction sites to verify availability and cost. Once I had answered these questions to my satisfaction I went out and made my first Ukrainian banknote purchase and then my second, third and so on. Once I was about three months in I thought "I still need more information" on these notes especially the pre 91' issues, so I went out and found a few more references to add to my collection (Make no mistake about it, a book about banknotes that you collect IS part of your collection.). As I collect these notes the process continues, get a few notes, get a new reference. I have absolutely spent more time reading (and writing) about these notes than I have spent looking at them, at least 10 to 1 probably way more than that. Which makes me wonder what I enjoy more studying/reading about these notes or actually owning them (A Journal for another time perhaps?). At any rate, the trigger for this entry was that I bought another reference this morning (and I'm still kind of annoyed about the "mushroom" watermark thing), the 2010 NBU Banknotes and Coins of Ukraine for the year 2010. Hopefully this entry will give any new collectors an idea of what they could be getting into and if there are any current or new Ukrainian collectors out there, I consider all of these "must haves" for your collection. PMG if you don't have any of these you may want to add them to your library, just saying. Krause: Good for general information, a good first purchase. Wonderful book, in English. Includes Ukraine along with several Eastern Bloc countries. Full color pictures. A great "pocket book" it's small (8"x6"x1/2") so it's easy to carry around. Cyrillic with English captions. Full color pictures. The most thorough book on Ukrainian banknotes there is, lists every known banknote printed including issues specific to banks and territories including during periods of occupation. All text is in Cyrillic but if you can learn a few key words (or use google translate or similar software) you'll be all set. Full color pictures. The NBU issued catalogs of all coins and banknotes produced in a said year (they stopped in 2013 I think). These are great with descriptions and numbers direct from the NBU. Cyrillic and English, full color. This is a downloadable .pdf, it covers the modern issues. Not a bad issue, if you wanted to skip Krause and go with this you'd be alright (has Pick #'s for reference). Full color. Downloadable .pdf's from the NBU. The NBU issued a new catalog in 2019, (for the first time is several years) FREE, and downloadable in English. Full Color. Finally the NBU website is an invaluable source of information for modern notes, including detailed security descriptions, the website has Ukrainian and English versions. I probably have a few more but I'd have to look for them. I tend to have these books scattered about, as I reference them so much. Here's another, Banknotes and Coins of Ukraine, Cyrillic so bring your translator.

Thanks, Pictures with instructions always help me. Is using the Seal the most reliable diagnostic because it is overprinted with the serial #? Is the "tilt" of the serial # an indicator? Sure, I always like learning new things. I have some NBN's but have spent almost zero time learning about them, hope to start getting serious about them next year sometime.

When I do get that 50 it's going to be great! Even better if the price goes down instead of up. I'll probably hang it on a wall, or put it in a picture frame on my desk so I can bask in it. It's not entirely self restraint and common sense that has me pushing this note back again. One of the big selling points to myself is, "Well. Do you want just one note for $X or do you want several really good notes for $X? Hmmmm... ". I can usually sell myself on more is better.

So I'm really torn here. As some may know I've been selling off some of my duplicate coins to acquire funds to purchase a particular banknote (Pick 125, 2011 50 Hryven Commemorative), see Journal entry "Right now! Catch that magic moment, do it right here and now?". I've been wrestling with this since July, I've hit the total needed to get this note probably 3 times and each time something else came up, i.e. a coin or a run of banknotes, etc.. We'll here I am again, I hit the target amount to buy the 50 Hryven note and guess what, a slew of notes pop up from multiple sellers that would be great in my collection/s, aghhhhh! Soooo, now what? Do I get the 50 Hryven, bid on about 8 different banknotes that are now available in auctions or both. Then if I buy the 50 and place bids on the others, do I make serious bids to try and get all the notes? This is killing me, why, why, why! I think the most sensible thing to do is, again, pass on the 50 Hryven note and place serious bids on the notes I'm eyeballing. I know the 50 will wait but my big fear is that it will continue to climb in price, last I checked it was running around $650. I hate pushing the 50 to the end of the line again, but I think it's the right move, right now. On a side note, one of the latest additions to my collection was this 1920 (No Date) 5 Hryven note with "P" on the back. There are a few varieties/errors with this note. Variety one, large ПЯТЬ (FIVE) on the reverse (about 16mm in length). Variety two, small ПЯТЬ (FIVE) on the reverse (about 13mm in length) which is what my note is. Error one, "P" missing from ГРИВЕНЬ (Hryven) on the back, which is why "With "P" on Back" is denoted on the label of my note. Finally error two, where the Obv and Rev images are inverted. There are no known specimens of this issue, the paper has "mushroom" watermarks. I haven't looked but I'm assuming that Krause does not have a watermark listed for this note and that is why PMG did not call it out on the label. This always bugs me to no end, that PMG and Krause (or whomever) don't communicate more on their own in regards to improving descriptions and/or discoveries (rant over). Note in PMG Holder: Varieties: Watermarks "mushrooms":

Lol, all in good fun my friend. I'll be waiting... It would be hilarious if you did get a "nothing box" as a gag. Have fun.

In addition to foreign banknotes I also collect Obsolete and NBN's from the State of Michigan and I recently picked up this beauty. It's not in the best shape but the price was right and the $3 notes are always hard to find because of the "nonstandard" denomination (the $3's are the most popular because of this and harder to find). It's not a real attractive note in regards to the design, a simple geometric design wreathed in a stylized floral design was used for the left and right dies, then a depiction of an eagle for the center image. The eagle is not well depicted, with an overly large body in relation to the wings and to put it politely is "ratty' looking. Especially when compared to a similarly depicted eagle on say a 1918 FRN. These "Wildcat" Banks began popping up in 1837 (Michigan was admitted to the Union on March 15, 1837) shortly after the first Michigan State Legislature session ended (March 22nd). During the first session the General "Banking Law" was passed and went into effect on March 15, this law authorized any 12 persons to make an application to the treasurer of the State for a bank. The capital stock had to be at least $50k and not more than $300k and 30% of this capital had to be in specie by the time of commencing operations. But due to economic hardship, over-trading and mismanagement a large amount of debt, nationally, was accrued, as a result the specie would not meet the outstanding debt. Reacting to this, eastern banks got their states to suspend specie payments this caused a drain of specie out of the State of Michigan so on June 22, 1837 specie was suspended by the Michigan banks enabled by an act of the Michigan legislature. The suspension of specie payments meant that unscrupulous individuals could open a bank/s without having to redeem the bank notes until May 16, 1838 when specie payments were to resume. The state legislature sought to curb this by appointing three bank commissioners instead of just one and have them examine the books and specie of said banks. The examiners found that instead of actual gold and silver, specie certificates were being used and were given by bank officers as a receipt of specie being held on deposit. Also "borrowed" specie was often used and then returned by a fast courier. One such instance of borrowed specie involved another Allegan County wildcat bank, a local Native American was transporting the needed specie, to present to an examiner, from one bank to another but the canoe he was traveling in capsized and the specie fell to the bottom of the Kalamazoo River (another story for another Journal entry). The Bank of Allegan (Organized Dec 30, 1837 - closed 1839) was one of many banks that began operation during this time, it was formed using "borrowed" specie. The opening and closing of this bank falls nicely into the "wildcat" timeline, around $100k was "poofed" when the bank closed.

Well after much foot dragging (and a little prodding), BAM!, I created a set for my Zimbabwe (new dollar) notes today. I must say the air is fresh and crisp up here at the top, (deep breath) ahhhhhh (thumbs firmly hooked onto suspenders *SNAP!*, hands on hips and looking stoically into the distance from atop the Registry.) . I recently purchased the final three notes I needed to complete the set, the $2 & $5 Bond Notes and the new 2020 $20 (say that three times fast). They arrived today, no big surprises on the Bond Notes as they are almost identical to the 2019 $2 & $5 issues the only difference being the serial number, date and the words "BOND NOTE" on the front and back. I haven't done a side by side comparison of the Bond Notes to the new dollar notes yet but as I now look at photos of both there maybe a few additional differences that I'll have to checkout later with a loupe and the notes in front of me, more to follow on that. I was hoping to complete this set in 68 (and I still might) but I'm impatient sometimes and well with a $2 PMG 67 sitting there at a reasonable price and a pocket full of eBay Bucks I didn't want to wait, I'm more than happy with both. Here are the Bond Notes. The real surprise to me was the $20 note, it just doesn't look as good 'in hand' as it does in images. It's not the graphics, all the images look crisp and well detailed, it's the colors. The blue just does not look as 'blue' as in images and the yellows just seem to detract from the blue even more, while the yellows/off whites just seem dingy. I don't know if it's the color combination of blue and yellow/off white but the note just looks musty and aged, like one of my notes from the 1800's. I'm not saying it's ugly but to me it's definitely the weakest note of the series when it comes to eye appeal. I suppose there could be several factors, not being able to see something in person before you buy it, doctored images or maybe the settings on my monitor are off, who knows. The other surprise with this note, in general not specifically this one, are the relatively low grades they seem to receive. I don't think I've seen one over 67, for a modern note that is low. Again many factors in play there like sample size for one, but who would know since PMG doesn't post populations of unlisted notes in there reports (sorry, getting off track here). Since I haven't seen any $20 notes over 67 I decided to pick up a 66 for now. Overall I'm happy with the note, but I was kind of considering this as a place holder until I could find a 67 or 68 in a year or two, now I'm not so sure... I think I'll take my time and ponder this question from the Top of the Registry Set. P.S. PMG should be assigning a point value to the $20 slot soon as I tried plugging it in today. Update: Done! As I was typing this Journal Entry, PMG updated the slot.

Awesome! Can't wait to read about it.

I think you're right, no takers on that $5 70EPQ at $995 I'd be feeling BIG TIME buyers remorse if I was the person who bought the first one.

You could say that. I thought about that 69 for quite awhile, I've been watching it for at least 3 weeks. I hated not having this set complete, all those notes popping up everyday and a pocket full of ebay bucks.... I couldn't take it any more , I wanted to finish the set. Now that I have those holes filled, I'll probably never think about that 69 again. Well not as much anyway.

Ha, if it was that $20 66EPQ then yep that was me. I was looking at a 69 $5 and I just couldn't justify the price, even with my eBay Bucks to offset some of the cost. I figured it was better just to go with a lower grade and kill two birds with one stone, in the end I'm just looking for some quality examples. Like you said the odds of these increasing in value is not good. If there were like 25 registry sets I might have been willing to take a gamble on the 69 as an investment but right now it's only you and soon to be me.

Ha. I'm just dragging my feet on getting them into the registry. I got kind of side tracked with Isle of Man coinage, so I've been spending my time on that. I'm kind of shifting back to banknotes again so I'll probably get the set started on PMG this week, maybe next. I have the $2, $5 and $10 in 68 I've been waiting for a $20 but just haven't seen one in the grade I'm looking for, I was kind of waiting to get the $20 so that, BAM, I could just post them all at once. We'll see, I just used my eBay Bucks to get the $5 Bond note.

You've probably already seen this but another $5 70 EPQ is for sale on eBay, starting price $955.55. I'm watching it, let's see if it sells. I'm suspecting bigtime buyers remorse for the person who bought the last one. Apparently getting a 70 is no big deal with these notes. The new notes are still not listed in the population reports If this note sells for that price or higher, then I have to conclude that there was something going on with the $2 listings. I don't know what else it could be, we'll see.