Lance A D

Mike, I find it curious that no one else has chimed into the forum. I don’t have anything else to say, except to wonder, are we the only two people on the planet who have an interest in this Super Radar labeling question? I was under the impression that PMG had an individual who monitors the forums. I’m surprised that no one from PMG has commented. I’m wondering how I may get their attention. Another phone call to PMG may be a waste of time. Do I have to go public with this issue? I’d like to avoid that at all costs. I’d prefer to have PMG’s problem go away quietly. I would appreciate your thoughts on how best to proceed.

As I read the weekly or monthly literature, I find that a U.S. note is always identified by a serial number that includes the alpha prefix and suffix characters. PMG lives with that identifier on the front of their holders. I’m of the belief that most collectors envision a radar serial number as one where the numbers read the same forward and backward. It’s a palindrome. The alpha characters are not considered unless the prefix and suffix are the same –– a super radar by PMG’s definition. I’m curious about your thoughts on what constitutes a second type of super radar. I will concede that there are “special” radar notes such as the one I posted above. That note is not a super radar. However, I imagine you may find many notes on eBay labeled as a super radar that don’t conform with PMG’s definition. Many eBay sellers play fast and loose with titles in an effort to gain attention and then rip off people. That’s what I believe.

Now back to the subject under discussion, Super Radar $1 FRNs, complying with the PMG definition. PMG states that the “Super Pedigree” applies when the “serial number is already fancy and the prefix adds to the pedigree making it super,” I’m hoping we can agree that a RADAR serial number is a fancy number. The prefix on a $1 FRN is an alpha character. When this prefix character matches the suffix alpha character, the “prefix adds to the pedigree making it super.” I don’t know how one gets around this. What are your thoughts? Please find below two images. The first is of the note recently returned to me that is arguably mislabeled. This started this whole discussion. The second note is indisputably mislabeled. This note was among those accompanying the above note. The back of the PMG holder correctly labels it “Radar-Repeater-Rotator S/N.” The front is all messed up. The series and Friedberg numbers are correct. However, the Block designation plus the serial number are both in error. Hard for me to believe PMG could do that. Appreciate your comments.

What has that to do with what we're discussing here? It's interesting, but we don't use that other grading service.

You can’t just make up a definition; you may use an “industry” definition (which can vary from place to place). In our case, we have to live with the PMG definition as posted on their website. - Paper Money Grading - Holders & Labels - Labels Dead End - Resources - Glossary (1/1/18) Dead End You have to find “Fancy Serial Numbers On Currency” from 4/18/17. I have no idea how I got there. https://www.pmgnotes.com/news/article/5901/Fancy-Serial-Numbers-On-Currency/ There you find the PMG definition of “Super Pedigrees.” The definition begins with, “This is when the serial number prefix makes the complete serial something different – something super.” . . . “There are two different scenarios where super fancy pedigrees come into play:” “1. The serial number is already fancy and the prefix adds to the pedigree making it super.” “2. The serial number isn’t fancy at all until the prefix is added – most commonly seen with radar serial numbers.” As soon as I can, I’ll submit pictures of the two mislabeled notes I just got back from PMG. You be the judge. Appreciate your thoughts.

Somehow I managed to get myself embroiled in a little disagreement with PMG, this after many years of my being a loyal customer. It’s been a couple of weeks now because I wanted to calm down so I wouldn’t reply in an inappropriate or discourteous manner. I submitted a number of U.S. notes at the convention in Colorado Springs last March. When I finally received the notes back, two $1 FRNs were mislabeled. I contacted PMG and we exchanged a couple of phone calls and e-mails. We were unable to resolve their problem. I had submitted two $1 FRN Super Radar notes. The PMG personnel with whom I communicated told me that PMG does not label U.S. notes as “Super” [pedigree]. What was PMG trying to tell me? PMG doesn’t do it now? PMG never did it? PMG doesn’t do it any more? PMG changed its policy and didn’t inform customers of the change? Perhaps any U.S. notes labeled as Super were the result of a booboo by the graders plus the Quality Control specialist? Their answer was unclear. I felt abused and put upon (not to mention disrespected as a long-time customer). All I ask is that the notes be properly labeled. I’m not seeking an apology nor my money back. Are there others out there who have encountered this mislabeling problem? It occurred to me if enough customers have experienced this problem and were to complain to PMG, perhaps this could be clarified and resolved. Please see below two examples of notes that don’t exist.

Following the instructions given me here, I spent a day and a half, more-or-less, not full time, searching completed sales on eBay over the last month or so. Some of the prices are insane. Ignoring these out-flyers I found the following unscientific, best-guess, average but seemingly realistic prices for raw, uncirculated notes: Radar notes - $30.+. Super Radar notes - not enough data. Four-digit Repeater notes - $25. Binomial (2-digit) notes - $12. Binary (0 & 1s) notes - $35+. Binary Fancy notes (Radars & Repeaters) - $100++. Fancy serial number (ending 5 of a kind, 10K, etc.) notes - $10. Unusual, attractive (book ends, 1K, etc.) notes - $7. If anybody out there has any thoughts or observations or experiences or data related to this topic, I would greatly appreciate hearing of it.

I was going through my junk pile and I came across a bunch of radar and repeater $1 FRNs from the last 25 years or so (all crisp uncirculated, maybe 63-65s). I’m curious as to what these things are going for today. What does a typical radar go for? What does a typical super radar go for? What does a typical 4-digit [ABCD ABCD] repeater go for? Appreciate your input.

Looks like the same font and same size for both serial numbers. It seems almost inconceivable to me that the BEP would change fonts unless it was doing a major design change, and I haven't heard any rumors. Look for a new $20 in 2027 or so.

You never answered his question. "So how do I find out what my credit balance is as of today?"

Mike, what is the website for the HA archives? I think that info could be quite useful. Thanx.

There are only two publications that I subscribe to that touch on paper currency. One is Bank Note Reporter. I only collect small-size currency, so that's the pricing I look at. Unfortunately, pricing on small-size notes hasn't been updated in five or six years - it's pretty ancient. The articles are pretty interesting, so you might consider this magazine. The second publication is the monthly issue of Coin World. Prices of large- and small-size currency are listed on a revolving basis. It's current, but I'm not qualified to say whether the prices are accurate. They seen to sync pretty much with eBay items. Currency articles are sparse, but interesting.

PMG only labels a "True" radar as a Super radar. The confusion arises from statement on the Web such as: Super RADAR = “... all the interior digits are the same. For example, 20000002 is a super radar.” - Jason DeWayne King “Fancy Serials: A Collector’s Guide to Special Serial Numbers” [April 28, 2018] See www.pmgnotes.com/news/article/5901/Fancy-Serial-Numbers-On-Currency/

I'm the guy who originally asked about a True Radar. We have now established that PMG does not label a True Radar, but it does recognize a Super Radar where the prefix and suffix alpha characters are identical. One type of serial number we never got to was the Rotator. There, the numbers read the same when the note is flipped horizontally. Only 0, 1, 6, 8, and 9 work. The notes are uncommonly found because they're harder to spot. Please look at a nice Radar, Repeater, Rotator that I stumbled upon; you can see how something like this is easy to spot.

I never did receive a definitive answer to the "True RADAR" definition, so I poked around on the 'Web' and found some good stuff. Do you have a minute? We all agree on the definition of a RADAR note. The definition of a Super RADAR is in dispute. “An example of a super radar is ‘81111118.’ The rules of math and probability say that a super radar will be found on only one note out of a random 1,111,111.”-pcgs.com. I also found, “A ‘Super’ radar refers to notes where the middle six digits are all the same and the first and last digit are the same.” -collectors.com. Heritage Auctions agrees with these definitions of a Super RADAR. I also found, “There are ladder radars, A12344321A. There are repeater radars, A22444422A.”-oldcurrencyvalues.com. The Repeater definition is the apparent PMG’s Super RADAR definition. Done, right? Nope. I found, "It is my understanding that a RADAR note is where the 8 numbers making up the serial number is the same when read forwards and backwards. A PERFECT RADAR has the same LETTER at the beginning and end of a RADAR note."-papermoneyforum.com. So maybe there is no True RADAR, but there is a Perfect RADAR. Will this ever end? So that this wasn't a total waste of your time, this website was very interesting. Check out http://www.coolserialnumbers.com/HowRareAreFancySerialNumbers.pdf