Does this count as a net grade? 1 1

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:13 PM, Carter12345 said:

So its a common signature for the note I had right?

Yes.

[Carter12345]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:33 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yes.

And the source you got it from is like right and trustworthy right? Cause checking auctions there doesn’t seem to be to many speelman white. Or is that just a coincidence?

Edited May 2, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/2/2023 at 7:54 PM, Carter12345 said:

And the source you got it from is like right and trustworthy right? Cause checking auctions there doesn’t seem to be to many speelman white. Or is that just a coincidence?

It is. Try searching by Fr #, there are 6 Speelman and White notes currently up for auction at HA alone.

[Carter12345]

On 5/3/2023 at 3:29 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

It is. Try searching by Fr #, there are 6 Speelman and White notes currently up for auction at HA alone.

Oh alright I just didn’t see any. Anyways do they deduct points for soiling? Because I don’t see any 25’s that look like mine with soiling.

Edited May 3, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:36 AM, Carter12345 said:

Anyways do they deduct points for soiling? Because I don’t see any 25’s that look like mine with soiling.

Soiling will cause the note to grade lower than a note with less or no soiling.

Here (link below) is the PMG grading scale, it gives a brief description of what a note in a specific grade should look like. 

https://www.pmgnotes.com/paper-money-grading/grading-scale/

Edited May 3, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike

[Carter12345]

On 5/3/2023 at 8:36 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Soiling will cause the note to grade lower than a note with less or no soiling.

Here (link below) is the PMG grading scale, it gives a brief description of what a note in a specific grade should look like. 

https://www.pmgnotes.com/paper-money-grading/grading-scale/

Wouldn’t the ink spot count as a “minor defect” I also found this 25 

https://currency.ha.com/itm/large-size/silver-certificates/fr-275-5-1899-silver-certificate-pmg-very-fine-25/a/142315-82243.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 

It looks pretty bad but I think the back is still better than mine because the creases aren’t as big and not as much soiling or yellowed as my bill the paper looks more white. Is this one that barely got through?

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:07 PM, Carter12345 said:

It looks pretty bad but I think the back is still better than mine because the creases aren’t as big and not as much soiling or yellowed as my bill the paper looks more white. Is this one that barely got through?

That's an ugly looking note. It's in similar condition to yours, a few less folds and creases with sharper edges but more soiling. 

[Carter12345]

On 5/4/2023 at 3:10 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

That's an ugly looking note. It's in similar condition to yours, a few less folds and creases with sharper edges but more soiling. 

So do you think it would grade higher or lower than mine? Probably higher cause almost everything other than soiling is better? And im guessing it barely got a 25.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/4/2023 at 1:47 PM, Carter12345 said:

So do you think it would grade higher or lower than mine? Probably higher cause almost everything other than soiling is better?

My guess would be the same or higher due to the reasons you stated.

On 5/4/2023 at 1:47 PM, Carter12345 said:

And im guessing it barely got a 25.

A definite possibility. 

[Carter12345]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:42 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

My guess would be the same or higher due to the reasons you stated.

A definite possibility. 

So mine would probably grade 20. Because that one was probably was on the edge of getting a 25 and everything other than soiling was better than mine on the note. And I guess they didn’t think there was enough soling to drop the grade. Also it had the same amount of folds as mine but mine were way bigger and stood out a lot more they deduct more for that right? Not to mention the paper is white and mine is brown/yellow.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Carter12345

[Carter12345]

On 5/4/2023 at 11:42 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

My guess would be the same or higher due to the reasons you stated.

A definite possibility. 

What percent do you think it grades a 15,20, or 25? Like 90% a 20, 5% a 25, and 5% a 15?? What do you think?

Edited May 7, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:33 PM, Carter12345 said:

So mine would probably grade 20. Because that one was probably was on the edge of getting a 25 and everything other than soiling was better than mine on the note. And I guess they didn’t think there was enough soling to drop the grade. Also it had the same amount of folds as mine but mine were way bigger and stood out a lot more they deduct more for that right? Not to mention the paper is white and mine is brown/yellow.

Yep, based on the pics I would guess that your note would grade lower due to those reasons. 

On 5/6/2023 at 5:40 PM, Carter12345 said:

What percent do you think it grades a 15,20, or 25? Like 90% a 20, 5% a 25, and 5% a 15?? What do you think?

Purely a guess but 25,50,25.

[Carter12345]

On 5/7/2023 at 5:27 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yep, based on the pics I would guess that your note would grade lower due to those reasons. 

Purely a guess but 25,50,25.

25% for both seams really high im not going to lie. I was thinking like 5%-10% for 15 and 25. And like 80%-90% for a 20

Edited May 7, 2023 by Carter12345

[Carter12345]

On 5/7/2023 at 5:27 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yep, based on the pics I would guess that your note would grade lower due to those reasons. 

Purely a guess but 25,50,25.

25% seems really high im not going to lie. I was think closer to 5%-10% for 15 or 25 wouldn’t you agree?

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/7/2023 at 8:16 PM, Carter12345 said:

25% seems really high im not going to lie. I was think closer to 5%-10% for 15 or 25 wouldn’t you agree?

Without seeing the note in-hand I couldn't say. My guess is that it would grade 20, wouldn't surprise me if it moved one grade in either direction. 

[Carter12345]

On 5/8/2023 at 3:09 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Without seeing the note in-hand I couldn't say. My guess is that it would grade 20, wouldn't surprise me if it moved one grade in either direction. 

This one looked a lot like mine a good front but bad back. Do you think the only reason it graded a 20 was because the little tears or the overall note just deserved a 20?

https://currency.ha.com/itm/large-size/silver-certificates/fr-278-5-1899-silver-certificate-pmg-very-fine-20/p/142325-18037.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited May 9, 2023 by Carter12345

[Carter12345]

On 5/8/2023 at 3:09 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Without seeing the note in-hand I couldn't say. My guess is that it would grade 20, wouldn't surprise me if it moved one grade in either direction. 

?

Edited May 9, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/9/2023 at 2:09 AM, Carter12345 said:

This one looked a lot like mine a good front but bad back. Do you think the only reason it graded a 20 was because the little tears or the overall note just deserved a 20?

https://currency.ha.com/itm/large-size/silver-certificates/fr-278-5-1899-silver-certificate-pmg-very-fine-20/p/142325-18037.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I agree, this one looks similar to the note in the OP. Overall it looks like a 20.

[Carter12345]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:05 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

I agree, this one looks similar to the note in the OP. Overall it looks like a 20.

Yeah but it had tears. Did those tiny little tears affect the grade? Or were they probably kind of overlooked since the grade is a 20 and it would’ve graded a 20 either way?

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/9/2023 at 5:45 PM, Carter12345 said:

Did those tiny little tears affect the grade?

Yes, they brought it down to a 20 along with the other condition issues.

On 5/9/2023 at 5:45 PM, Carter12345 said:

Or were they probably kind of overlooked since the grade is a 20 and it would’ve graded a 20 either way?

Everything is taken into consideration when grading. It is a subjective process involving multiple people to determine the condition of a note, I couldn't speak to what they thought about a note.

Do you still have the note or another? I thought you sold it?

 

[Carter12345]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:43 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yes, they brought it down to a 20 along with the other condition issues.

Everything is taken into consideration when grading. It is a subjective process involving multiple people to determine the condition of a note, I couldn't speak to what they thought about a note.

Do you still have the note or another? I thought you sold it?

 

I did sell it i just want to know what it would’ve graded. Do you think if the note didnt have tears it would grade a 25 or still probably a 20 because of all the other issues?

[Carter12345]

On 5/9/2023 at 3:43 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yes, they brought it down to a 20 along with the other condition issues.

Everything is taken into consideration when grading. It is a subjective process involving multiple people to determine the condition of a note, I couldn't speak to what they thought about a note.

Do you still have the note or another? I thought you sold it?

 

I saw this 25 which had multiple tears. How did it even get a 25 with that many tears?

 https://currency.ha.com/itm/large-size/silver-certificates/fr-280-5-1899-mule-silver-certificate-pmg-very-fine-25/a/142319-82518.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:18 PM, Carter12345 said:

I saw this 25 which had multiple tears. How did it even get a 25 with that many tears?

Fewer folds and creases would be my guess.

On 5/9/2023 at 7:18 PM, Carter12345 said:

Do you think if the note didnt have tears it would grade a 25 or still probably a 20 because of all the other issues?

Hard to say, but yes, if it was in better condition it would have a better chance at grading higher. 25, possibly.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike

[Carter12345]

On 5/10/2023 at 2:59 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Fewer folds and creases would be my guess.

Hard to say, but yes, if it was in better condition it would have a better chance at grading higher. 25, possibly.

My note didnt have any tears but do you still think a 20 because of all the other issues like creases,folds, soling, etc?

Edited May 10, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:44 AM, Carter12345 said:

My note didnt have any tears but do you still think a 20 because of all the other issues like creases,folds, soling, etc?

Correct, but like I said I wouldn't be surprised if it moved one grade in either direction. 

[Carter12345]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:49 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Correct, but like I said I wouldn't be surprised if it moved one grade in either direction. 

Ok so most likely a 20. Also wouldn’t the ink mark count as a minor defect as stated in PMG grading scales for 20’s. It says they may have minor defects. Wouldn’t that be a minor defect?

[Carter12345]

On 5/10/2023 at 8:49 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Correct, but like I said I wouldn't be surprised if it moved one grade in either direction. 

Also I was looking at this auction place called great collections and how come some terrible looking 1899 $5 silver certificates graded 15 sold for like $730 but two that graded VF20 that looked decent sold for $790? Only $60 more for a much much better looking note.

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/10/2023 at 10:01 PM, Carter12345 said:

Ok so most likely a 20. Also wouldn’t the ink mark count as a minor defect as stated in PMG grading scales for 20’s. It says they may have minor defects. Wouldn’t that be a minor defect?

Yes.

On 5/11/2023 at 3:38 AM, Carter12345 said:

Also I was looking at this auction place called great collections and how come some terrible looking 1899 $5 silver certificates graded 15 sold for like $730 but two that graded VF20 that looked decent sold for $790? Only $60 more for a much much better looking note.

Don't know, I'd have to see the notes. Could be as simple as right place right time.

[Carter12345]

On 5/11/2023 at 3:06 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yes.

Don't know, I'd have to see the notes. Could be as simple as right place right time.

Check great collections auction archives. When the VF20s sold there were 2 VF20s and 1 VF25 up for auction on the same day but that wouldnt bring down the price would it? When the 15 sold it was the only one up at auction. Was it just the buyer didn’t really care or got in a bidding war?

Edited May 11, 2023 by Carter12345

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/11/2023 at 3:38 AM, Carter12345 said:

Also I was looking at this auction place called great collections and how come some terrible looking 1899 $5 silver certificates graded 15 sold for like $730 but two that graded VF20 that looked decent sold for $790? Only $60 more for a much much better looking note.

One of the 15's was a mule, more valuable than a standard note such as yours, the other sold at the height of the pandemic when everything was going for crazy prices. The 20's sold on the same day and were in PCGS holders, both those things could have suppressed the price. Sometimes things sell for more than expected, sometimes less, it just depends on who's bidding and how bad they want it.