Why is it that PMG relies on the submitter to identify a banknote, when the whole purpose of a grading / authentication service is supposed to do just that? 0

[mmmmm]

You would think the first step in the process of authenticating a banknote would be identifying the banknote so that it could be compared to a genuine banknote. However, for some reason PMG requires the submitter to identify the banknote on the submission forum.  Does that mean PMG is not actually authenticating the banknote?

What if I am not sure if the banknote is "57a" or "57b" or "57Ab" and so I just put "57" on the form, would I be charged the "adjustment fee of $5 per note" and "$10 adjustment fee" for not putting the correct number down?

Or if I enter "57" but it turns out to be a similar note "128"? Or does PMG not look for that? Would I get charged for missidentifying a banknote?

And what about if the banknote does not have an assigned "Pick number" because it is new or missed in the catalogue?  How do I fill out the forum for that?

I am missing the logic somewhere of why the submitter needs to identify the banknote if PMG is suppose to be a "grading / authentication" company. It does not make sense for PMG to rely on the submitter to identify a banknote.

So what do I do if I do not know the proper catalogue number of a banknote.

Thank you,

[Jennifer F.]

Good morning,

Thank you for your message.  Yes, PMG does authenticate the note and we do double check all catalog numbers.  The reason we started requiring customers to provide the catalog numbers was because we were seeing customers sending in hundreds of notes at once with no catalog information listed so it was taking our research department twice as long to verify those invoices because they had to look up every single note.  The process goes much faster if the customer provides a starting point and this, in turn, will result in faster overall turnaround times for all customers.  

There is no penalty if you put an incorrect number, we just want a starting point, if possible.  We will, of course, double check everything and make sure the information is correct before we list it on the label.  We don't just blindly put whatever the customer lists on the label without verifying that it is correct. 

If you are unsure of a number, you can put what you think it is and we will double check it.  If a note doesn't have a catalog number or is not listed in any catalog, you can just put "N/A" in that field.  We only charge a $5 research fee when there is a catalog number and it is not listed on the form. 

If you have any other questions, please let us know.  Thank you!

[mmmmm]

Thank you for clarifying that.  One more question.  Since Krause Publications, there have been so many groups assigning "catalog numbers," some are pretty bad and change them often like greysheet's.  You said you would charge a research fee if a catalog does exist, so which catalog does PMG primarily use for new notes and is PMG going to start an online catalog like banknote.ws so that submitters can match the numbers?

Thank you,

 

[Jennifer F.]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:04 PM, mmmmm said:

Thank you for clarifying that.  One more question.  Since Krause Publications, there have been so many groups assigning "catalog numbers," some are pretty bad and change them often like greysheet's.  You said you would charge a research fee if a catalog does exist, so which catalog does PMG primarily use for new notes and is PMG going to start an online catalog like banknote.ws so that submitters can match the numbers?

Thank you,

 

Good morning,

You can find a list of the reference books we use here: Notes PMG Grades, Attributions & Reference Books | PMG (pmgnotes.com)

Thank you!

[mmmmm]

Do you think that PMG should just stop putting catalog numbers on the PMG label?

[Revenant]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:36 AM, mmmmm said:

Do you think that PMG should just stop putting catalog numbers on the PMG label?

No. It would make the new ones inconsistent with the old ones, and I rarely prefer less identifying information vs more.

Also, I'd much rather just have to look for "P-1d" when looking for a note I want than have to check the 4-5 other things I'd have to check to know a P-1d vs P-1c vs P-1b vs P-1a. Also, with some of the things I collect, the difference between the "a" and "b" is the watermark, and the sellers rarely show the watermark in pictures. PMG will also often indicate a type 1 or type 2 watermark on the label, but that gets me back into the mode of having to look at 4-5 things to know what variety I'm getting vs just having it on the label.

[mmmmm]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:34 PM, Revenant said:

No. It would make the new ones inconsistent with the old ones, and I rarely prefer less identifying information vs more.

Also, I'd much rather just have to look for "P-1d" when looking for a note I want than have to check the 4-5 other things I'd have to check to know a P-1d vs P-1c vs P-1b vs P-1a. Also, with some of the things I collect, the difference between the "a" and "b" is the watermark, and the sellers rarely show the watermark in pictures. PMG will also often indicate a type 1 or type 2 watermark on the label, but that gets me back into the mode of having to look at 4-5 things to know what variety I'm getting vs just having it on the label.

Catalog numbers do sometimes change. But you need to verify the note anyway, especially when you receive them back from PMG. Like many other grading services PMG does make mistakes in identifying banknotes at times and you may end up with a mislabeled note like the example here which is labeled as a Ceylon 50 cent note P-41, but it is clearly a 25 cents P-40. Mistakes happen.    And when you go to buy a PMG certified banknote I would hope you would always be verifying the certification and compare the label to the banknote. There are a good number of errors and fakes out there.

Anyway, with what appears to be the end of the SCWPM catalog system with no clear catalog system to replace it, maybe it would be better just to identify the banknote in a different way other than catalog number.

 

 

[Revenant]

On 4/13/2022 at 8:14 AM, mmmmm said:

 And when you go to buy a PMG certified banknote I would hope you would always be verifying the certification and compare the label to the banknote. There are a good number of errors and fakes out there.

The vast majority of what I've bought the last few years has been from a large PMG Authorized dealer, and it's mostly pretty low value modern stuff. While I suppose anything is possible, I doubt one of the larger international PMG authorized dealers would jeopardize their relationship with PMG to sell fake notes in fake holders. So I don't lose much sleep over it. Just my 2 cents.

[currencyden]

While Pick catalogs have stopped being produced in 2019 when Penguin acquired the rights of publishing, the Pick number data base was sold to Active Interest Media (AIM).  I have been told AIM continues to manage the Pick# data base, and PMG pays AIM for use of this Pick# data base.  Do you use "new" Pick numbers assigned by AIM for new world bank note submissions?  This came about due to an IBNS (International Bank Note Society) member submitting a Macao 20 Patacas note commemorating the 2022 Beijing Olympics for the 2022 Bank Note of the Year (BNOY).  I noted a half dozen or so PMG graded notes for sale on Ebay, all with an assigned Pick number, NOT P-NL or P-NEW.  The Pick number assigned on all the notes is P124a.  I send a pdf of all notes submitted with all the salient information & images to aid members in voting for the new BNOY.  If this note is indeed cataloged as P124a I will want to add this information.