Will PMG call this BEP “Mistake” an Error now? 1 1

[Craig in Vegas]

Hello,

As you can see by the attached Article by currency Expert Peter Huntoon, who called the BEP’s action of authorizing both the DC and FW printing Facilities, to print notes of the same Series (2013), same FRB (New York), same denomination ($1), with Duplicated Star Note Serial Numbers, a Mistake.
Any dictionary calls Mistake or Error, synonyms.
The first matched pair I submitted for grading, I just asked for it to say “Duplicated Serial Numbers” and you did, thank you.  That was my mistake/error, I should have asked for it to say “BEP Error-Duplicated Serial Numbers Printed & Issued”.  So when I submitted a second matched pair of duplicated serial number error notes, I asked for the Error designation and PMG responded that at this point they were not ready to call this mistake, an error, because they were printed at different facilities, but you (PMG) may change your (Their) mind in the future.
Nowhere does the Law allow for duplicated serial numbers to be printed as long as they are printed at different facilities, that is a really poor argument.  If that we’re allowed they could cut serial number size almost in half and just print them at different facilities, just think how much money they could save on ink and smaller equipment.
So when I was in college, (all schools), if I made a mistake on a test, it was counted as an “Error”, and my grade reflected the errors.  If the planned event of issuing unique serial numbers for a specific Series, FRB, Denomination Note, does not occur then by all definitions a mistake/error happened.  
Now for my question; as time has passed and PMG has had an opportunity to absorb and discuss this situation, will they now call this a BEP Error for authorizing the printing and distributing same Series, FRB, Denomination, notes with duplicated serial numbers, an Error?

Sincerely,

Craig

 

[Jennifer F.]

Good morning,

I did check with our research department and they advised that we do not currently consider these duplicate serial numbers because they were printed at different facilities.  This means that they have different FR#'s and we currently only recognize the Duplicate S/N Error if it is the exact same Pick #/FR# and Variety.  

I am sorry we cannot accommodate your request at this time.

Thank you!

[Craig in Vegas]

Thank you for your response, however I respectfully disagree.

I don’t believe that a third party catalogs assigned listing FR#, and Pick#, has the ability to over ride, negate, dismiss, the fact that all U.S. currency printed in a particular Series (2013), for the same FRB (New York), for the same Denomination ($1), must have unique serial numbers.  
So if we had 20 printing facilities in this Country, we could re-print the same Serial Number 20 times and it wouldn’t be an error?  

So what’s the point of having Star Notes to begin with? Just print a replacement note with the same serial number of the damaged note at the opposite facility.

A different FR#, does not erase the fact that the BEP made a mistake, error, boo boo, when it wrongly authorized a second printing of same series, FRB, denomination notes with duplicate Serial Numbers that had already been printed and put into circulation.

My hope is that you will re-examine and update your definition of duplicated serial numbers.  At least please try and look at it from my side of it.  I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, I’m just a lay person that believes if it looks and quacks like a duck, it’s probably duck. If currency is supposed to have unique serial numbers, and un-intentionally some do not, then it most likely was an error.

Sincerely,

Craig

[Jennifer F.]

Good morning,

I understand, and you are welcome to send the notes back in but based on the information I was provided, it is unlikely they will be able to list it as an error at this time.  

Thank you,

[Craig in Vegas]

So let’s just use the BEPs own words.

Directly from their website…..“Each note of the same denomination has its own serial number”
 

No where does it say duplicate use of a Serial Number is ok if printed at different facilities because they have different Pick#/FR#.

Thanks,

Craig

[Craig in Vegas]

Recently one of the project members sent an email to Dr. Frederick Bart, the Author of “United States Paper Money Errors”, linking him to this chat, question, about designating these Duplicated Serial Numbers as Errors.

Dr. Bart responded in part with… “I endorse these as “Production Errors” and believe they should be classified as Production Errors with Duplicated Serial Numbers. I intend to identify these as such, in the 5th Edition of United States Paper Money Errors.”

Dr. Bart also said we could forward this email to PMG, PCGS-Banknote, and Legacy.

So if you would like to send me an email, I will forward his full email on these Errors to you.

Thanks,

Craig

[Craig in Vegas]

Hello again,

After the last two postings, was wondering if PMG is still taking the stance these are not Errors?

Just asking because I haven’t seen anything here or by email in response to the latest news.

Theres been quite a few “views” so this appears to be a topic of interest.

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.

Craig

[Jennifer F.]

Good morning,

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, our graders are not considering these errors at this time.  You are welcome to send them back along with any additional documentation you feel relevant, but based on what they have advised, they most likely will come back the same. 

 

Thank you,

[Craig in Vegas]

Hello,

For those of you who have been watching this question; I wanted to let you know that after I forwarded PMG the Email from Dr. Frederick Bart, PMG replied back to me that they WOULD in fact re-label these matched pair of notes as ERRORS, and they gave me instructions on how to send them back in.

Im very excited about the positive outcome, and thought you all may want to know.

Take care and thanks for following along!  Thank you PMG!

P.S. If any of you are going to this Years World Fair of Money in Illinois, this pair will be on Display with the StacksBowers Auction House.  Their currently on Display in New York.

[Raymond R]

*One Lucky Collector Now Owns This Top Grade Set. Sold on 10/9/2022 On eBay.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=2013+%241+pmg+67&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=2013+%241+matching+set&_osacat=0&LH_PrefLoc=2&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1

[Craig in Vegas]

Glad to see this sale!!  Hope it goes thru to completion.  

I’m trying to figure out what or how “Top Grade” is to be calculated since these pairs are two notes with different grades.  Some pairs have had one note at 67, some at 66 or even lower.  But shouldn’t we figure in the 2nd note as well in each pair?  I’m thinking we should take the average of both notes then whatever that number is, would be that pairs, so called overall “Grade”, and then one can determine “Top Grade”?

The one sold above states in the sales ad “Top Grade Set - None Finer PMG 30/67”

If we simply add the 2 numbers and divide by 2 we will have our average.  So a perfectly graded matched set  70/70 the average is 70.  70 would be “Top Grade”.

But until a perfect set of 70’s is found, I’m guessing we will have to determine “Top Grade” by those that have been graded thus far and calculate their averages.

The 67/30 becomes 48.5    

See above pairs as well.

The 66/35 becomes 50.5.  

And the 66/53 becomes 59.5  

There are other pairs out there where at least one of the notes was also a 67.

You will also see the pair below, recently graded by PCGS is a 67/35 with an average of 51.  Properly labeled as “Production Error w/ Duplicate Serial Numbers

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m ecstatic at the pair Selling and at that price!!  I hope the sale holds.  I’m also concerned with claim, specifically, “NONE FINER PMG 30/67” 

Maybe PMG will weigh in.

PMG, what do you suggest be done to determine “Top Grade”, when the item includes two separate notes, with two different grades?

Edited October 10, 2022 by Craig in Vegas

[manofwar]

Very Nce match up,  one can only hope.

I do have 8 Matching pairs of serial number from BEP from the 2009 promo, I wonder if they wiuld qualify as well?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tadhiel]

I understand, and you are welcome to send the notes back in but based on the information I was provided, it is unlikely they will be able to list it as an error at this tim. Thank you

[manofwar]

Hello All,

I wonder how one defines a person defines lets say an, (Over Inking, a folded corner, faulty alinment)" and I could go on, but are these not errors during production.

I wonder if there shpuld be a differentiation of sorts like mechanical errors and human errors like bad programing, bad quality control and such.  

Just a Thaought?,

Bill