1911 Canadian 1 dollar note / special features 0

[Rebel1]

Good Morning All, new here and looking forward to the experience of those on this board.

I have a 1911 Canadian 1 dollar note that is a 2 digit radar / 3 cycle repeater. Serial # 878878J I would estimate the condition to be VF-20 / 25. I have posted the question on another board in Canada and asked if this note would have a higher value based on its unique serial number. I got a response from someone saying that this was not a serial number but a sheet number and that it was likely that it has 3 duplicates and this is common regarding older notes. Looking on line I see that PMG has graded and certified similar 1911 Canadian notes and they indicate a serial number on the holder so I'm a bit confused here. So now I have more questions aside from the valuation. Is it possible that there are duplicates of this note with the exact number and check letter? If that is true, how many survived and in what condition? Over the years I have not seen any others similar to what I have. Not saying they don't exist, just have not seen any for sale. I have posted a photo and would appreciate any feedback.

Cheers

[Fenntucky Mike]

Hello and welcome to the PMG forum!

I'm not familiar with these but regardless if it is a sheet number or unique serial number I would still consider it fancy, and I agree with your assessment that PMG lists that number as a serial number on their label for all of the examples I looked at. My thought is that if a sheet number this does not decrease the value of the note because there maybe other notes out there with duplicate #'s, so what, it's still a fancy number and the odds of the other three notes still being in existence is pretty slim and if one was found, again, so what, I don't think it would diminish the value at all. There is oftentimes conflicting information in references for older notes and I guess if you were worried what PMG would do if you submitted this note to them, you could ask this question in the ASK PMG section of the forum. 

For Canadian notes PMG uses the following two references in addition to Pick. Maybe there is something in one of these references in regards to the #, if you haven't looked already. Very sweet note by the way. 

• Canadian Banknotes "Bank Of Canada" and "Dominion of Canada" — referenced to Charlton Standard Catalogue of Canadian Government Paper Money edited by R. J. Graham
• Canadian Charter Banknotes — referenced to Charlton Standard Catalogue of Canadian Bank Notes edited by R. J. Graham

[Rebel1]

Thanks Fenntucky Mike;

I also thought the same as you with regard to other duplicate notes still being around for the past 111 years. I have the Charlton Standard Catalogue. Its not much help with notes that go beyond (older than) the 1937 series of Canadian notes. There are healthy primiums for those notes with similar serial number configurations such as the radar and cycle that I mentioned on the 1911 note I posted a pic of. As there is no published information in any catalogue that I've looked at and also the fact that I have not seen a single radar note of this year and variety and I've been looking for the past 10 or so years, leads me to believe there should be some $$ utility added. How much that is ? that's the question. I also posted a second radar note in your fancy #'s thread from the Westmorland Bank of Moncton New Brunswick circa 1861. That was also another gem find.

[Fenntucky Mike]

Regardless if this is a sheet number or serial number because it is fancy there is a premium attached, IMO, and if three other notes did show up on the market with the same number the premium for the fancy number would be minimally impacted. Now if your note was in the worse condition of the three that could have a negative impact but I would tend to think that your note would hold it's value and still carry a premium for the #, and that the three notes in better condition would pull even higher premiums beyond there typical grades. 

As far as what the premium is for the fancy number , the only way to tell is to get lucky and find a similar one in an auction archive or sold listing on ebay. If I was going to pull a number out of the air I'd guess between 5-10% more in a well publicized auction.? Maybe more. It's VERY difficult to find fancy numbers on old notes. 

On 5/31/2022 at 1:55 AM, Rebel1 said:

I also posted a second radar note in your fancy #'s thread from the Westmorland Bank of Moncton New Brunswick circa 1861. That was also another gem find.

That is certainly a wonderful looking note! Congrats!

Edited May 31, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[Notaphily]

I have been collecting Bank of Canada series for 40 & have no idea what sort of premium would go with your DC-18a (P-27a) $1.00 from 1911. It is a 2 digit radar & I like it but I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay a premium for such a cool serial #. My reason is b/c I'd want it either "original" BCS or "EPQ" from PMG since so many DoC notes were pressed (& these are rarer & more significant in my mind). 

If you have a Charlton, you will know that the guide doesn't have good estimates for radars from 1937 & prior. There are many collectors who pay a substantial premium for radars of the 1935/37 & even the 1954 Devil's Face series. But the BoC are collected by a wide collector base (including world collectors). The premiums paid are usually highest (& sometimes crazy) for the higher EPQ or "Original" certified examples.

If you got vague or mild response from other forum collectors it is likely that collectors haven't had much exposure to special numbers that far back. I wouldn't be put off by that: its just people don't know & some will make comments about the # (odds) of radars. While it is true that 3 series were printed for the first series (yours) & another 4 series for DC18b, and 8 more series (DC18c/d), there are greater chances of other radars. But that's beside the point. I don't think that's the issue when it comes to a premium paid for a note like yours.  It would probably be more about the older generation collector (who may be less willing to seek radars) & who may prioritize condition whereas the younger generation collector may prioritize special numbers.  If the Dominion notes were cheaper (& there were far more collectors looking for special numbers), I'm sure more collectors would be providing you with feedback & more willing to pay a premium.  The only way to determine what the premium would be would require you to put if up for auction (or find an auction result for a similar note).

Does that make sense?