Where can I get help doing paper work? 1 1

[John Bayly]

I need some help filling out the submit forms, Suggestions would be helpful.

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

If you have specific questions you can post them here or in the Ask PMG section of the forum. Other option would be to find a local PMG authorized dealer and have them send the notes in for you/help with the paper work. Or contact PMG customer service. Good luck on the submission. 

https://www.pmgnotes.com/services/DealerListing.aspx?state=wa 

Hours (Monday to Friday):
9:00am to 5:00pm EST

1-877-PMG-5570 toll free
(+1) 941 309 1001
(+1) 941 309 1002 fax
Service@PMGnotes.com 

[mmmmm]

Do these dealers charge you for doing the paperwork?  Does it cost more going through a dealer than submitting directly?

 Thank you

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/20/2022 at 7:54 PM, mmmmm said:

Do these dealers charge you for doing the paperwork?  Does it cost more going through a dealer than submitting directly?

I've never submitted through a dealer but I imagine there would be a small fee, it may end up being a wash though as I'm sure they get a dealer discount. You'll have to go there and ask. The big advantage in going to a dealer is that they can give you some information on the note/s, see what condition the note is in and tell you if they are even worth submitting. With that being said what are you planning on sending in, I'd love to see a couple of pics. We like seeing awesome notes!

[mmmmm]

On 5/21/2022 at 8:22 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

With that being said what are you planning on sending in, I'd love to see a couple of pics. We like seeing awesome notes!

I am still debating on whether to submit or not.  Even though PMG post prices and fees, the cost is actually very vague and the price structure is a variable depending on what they decide the value of the banknote is. For example, after interviewing many collectors who have submitted banknotes it appears that PMG places the value on the banknote after it has been graded instead of before.   Which as you could imagine is a conflict of interest. The higher the grade the higher the value, the higher the Fee for grading. I do not see why a banknote valued over 300 would be graded any different than a banknote valued under 300. The process to me is the same, so the cost should be the same. So I don't see the distinction. Then again, I am not a dealer and my collection will be with my family until after they toss it out.

I am not rich, the cheapest way for me to submit a banknote would be "Modern Bulk - Mixed Types (1957-present)" which to start is $16 a banknote.  That's is a minimum of 50 banknotes.  That's $750 dollars, and that is not including shipping and handling. I need to save up for a year just for this level. To give a frame of reference, none of the banknotes that I own have a cataloged value above $250 and the most that I have paid for a banknote was $143 for a Costa Rica 50,000 Colones and that included shipping. The problem is the UNC of SCWPM is said by some to be 60 on the PMG scale. So what would be the charge? 

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/21/2022 at 11:34 AM, mmmmm said:

I am still debating on whether to submit or not.  Even though PMG post prices and fees, the cost is actually very vague and the price structure is a variable depending on what they decide the value of the banknote is. For example, after interviewing many collectors who have submitted banknotes it appears that PMG places the value on the banknote after it has been graded instead of before.   Which as you could imagine is a conflict of interest. The higher the grade the higher the value, the higher the Fee for grading. I do not see why a banknote valued over 300 would be graded any different than a banknote valued under 300. The process to me is the same, so the cost should be the same. So I don't see the distinction. Then again, I am not a dealer and my collection will be with my family until after they toss it out.

I am not rich, the cheapest way for me to submit a banknote would be "Modern Bulk - Mixed Types (1957-present)" which to start is $16 a banknote.  That's is a minimum of 50 banknotes.  That's $750 dollars, and that is not including shipping and handling. I need to save up for a year just for this level. To give a frame of reference, none of the banknotes that I own have a cataloged value above $250 and the most that I have paid for a banknote was $143 for a Costa Rica 50,000 Colones and that included shipping. The problem is the UNC of SCWPM is said by some to be 60 on the PMG scale. So what would be the charge? 

 

First thing, those are some beautiful notes. My nephew says the 10000 Tenge is his favorite. 

Anyway, from what I'm seeing in sold listings is that all three of these notes would be valued at around $300 in UNC condition up to 67 EPQ so that's what I'd value them at when submitting. PMG will revalue a note and bump it up a tier if they feel it's under valued, and to me I would prefer that rather than the note be lost in shipping and not be able to recoup the full value of the note. I can see your dilemma, as these notes are right at the cutoff and may get bumped up a tier if submitted at the lowest level, but I'd personally want them to be insured fully when being shipped. I understand the value of a bulk submission but maybe try a "test" submission first, of say 10-15 notes and see what happens. You could also contact PMG directly and see if you can talk this over with them.

[mmmmm]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:55 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Anyway, from what I'm seeing in sold listings is that all three of these notes would be valued at around $300 in UNC condition up to 67 EPQ so that's what I'd value them at when submitting.

And there is the first problem as I wrote before, PMG pegs SCWPM grade of "UNC" to only 60; however, technically SCWPM's grade "UNC" includes everything from 60 to 70.  So if  SCWPM says the value of an uncirculated banknote is 250, then that means all notes from 60 to 70 are 250.  However by PMG saying SCWPM's "UNC" is "60" and only "60" well then you see what they are doing. So what confuses me is they say submit the value of the note but they can change the value of the note?

Second, as you noted "PMG will revalue a note and bump it up a tier if they feel it's under valued," I could be wrong, but I think according to Florida state law that is illegal. I don't think they are legally allowed to "revalue" the note after the note has been submitted and accepted for grading, and especially if it has gone through the grading process.

For me it still comes down to who decides the value and when?  Because I submit it at one value but they can arbitrary re-assign it a value. humph 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by mmmmm

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/27/2022 at 1:56 PM, mmmmm said:

However by PMG saying SCWPM's "UNC" is "60" and only "60" well then you see what they are doing.

I've never noticed or heard of this, where is this stated by PMG? Though on some level it makes sense.

I honestly don't think that PMG would value or bump you up a tier for any of the notes posted, regardless of what they graded, but for sake of argument let's say that the 10000 Tenge note posted grades 70*, what what that be worth? $500? And if it was lost in shipping and was only insured for the value you placed on it, $300, you'd be out just under a couple hundred of additional profit. I think that PMG reserves the right to bump notes up a tier for egregious undervaluation of notes and, again, if you contacted PMG directly I'm sure they'd be able to give you a satisfactory answer, as opposed to speculating what might happen. Just my .  

Hours (Monday to Friday):
9:00am to 5:00pm EST

1-877-PMG-5570 toll free
(+1) 941 309 1001
(+1) 941 309 1002 fax
Service@PMGnotes.com 

On 5/27/2022 at 1:56 PM, mmmmm said:

And there is the first problem as I wrote before, PMG pegs SCWPM grade of "UNC" to only 60; however, technically SCWPM's grade "UNC" includes everything from 60 to 70.  So if  SCWPM says the value of an uncirculated banknote is 250, then that means all notes from 60 to 70 are 250.  However by PMG saying SCWPM's "UNC" is "60" and only "60" well then you see what they are doing. So what confuses me is they say submit the value of the note but they can change the value of the note?

I think the SCWPM is wrong more often than it is right, the moment a reference is published the pricing within becomes obsolete. A note graded 60, UNC condition, does not have the same valuation as a note graded 65, Gem UNC. The same is true for an UNC note with poor paper quality and an UNC note with EPQ. The differences between such examples can be hundreds of dollars or more. The SCWPM's pricing is far to vague to go by in most instances, I would never value any of my notes based on the SCWPM. Use it as a reference or baseline, sure, but never as a final valuation. This goes back to the fact that I don't want to undervalue my own notes, specifically for insurance purposes, but that's just me. 

On 5/27/2022 at 1:56 PM, mmmmm said:

I don't think they are legally allowed to "revalue" the note after the note has been submitted and accepted for grading, and especially if it has gone through the grading process.

The act of having a note graded automatically "revalues" it, doesn't it. Once a grade is assigned to a note the value will more often than not change, which begs the question will PMG bump you down a tier? I thought I read somewhere that  they won't. They've been at this a long time and have, probably, already been challenged several times on this, they are most likely within their right.  Sorry, now I'm just being chatty. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[mmmmm]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:07 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

The act of having a note graded automatically "revalues" it, doesn't it. Once a grade is assigned to a note the value will more often than not change, which begs the question will PMG bump you down a tier? I thought I read somewhere that  they won't. They've been at this a long time and have, probably, already been challenged several times on this, they are most likely within their right.  Sorry, now I'm just being chatty. 

Well as PMG says on their FAQ page "PMG does not buy, sell or appraise notes," Which means according to them they do not set the value. They don't "appraise." So who sets the value? And the value needs to be set before they grade the note, the value cannot be re-assigned after the grading. 

If you think about it, they cannot bump up the "tier" after the note has been graded. If they did "re-value" a note after grading that would make them "appraisers" which would then make them fall under the Florida appraisal laws and regulations. Which would prohibit them from changing the fees.  And if they themselves assigned a value at submission, then again it would make them  "appraisers" which would then make them fall under the Florida appraisal laws and regulations. They are stuck. They cannot appraise the value of the note or change its tier for fees after grading has started.  I wonder why they just don't charge a flat fee?

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:46 AM, mmmmm said:

So who sets the value?

The market, and the submitter would have to value their notes accordingly. If not then PMG bumps it up a tier. Having a note graded revlaues it based on pricing in the open market not PMG.

On 5/31/2022 at 9:46 AM, mmmmm said:

And the value needs to be set before they grade the note, the value cannot be re-assigned after the grading. 

Do they bump up the tier prior to grading? If I send in a note the market says is worth $1,000 in any condition, they may use The Greensheet for current values on U.S. notes for example ,  and I have it in the Modern tier ($300), and value it as such, would they bump it prior to grading? Probably. I suspect that this is when it happens.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[Alex in PA.]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:46 AM, mmmmm said:

So who sets the value?

People like you and I.  Auctions and eBay usually guide the market.  I am no expert on world currency but those are some nice notes.  Personally, until the resurrection of PCGS currency, I wouldn't have anything other than PMG.  Good luck.