GoldFinger1969

Thought a thread on these 2 kinds of fancy SNs might generate some interest. I'll start off with one of each...a Radar AND Repeater ! Both recent....pretty high grades. Got them back in 2019 or 2020.

The good thing is that the specialization (marketing) of all these differentiated "fancy numbers" are limited by the laws of mathematics and the digits 0-9, right ? I do see how the "super" annotation could come into play if you want the same letters buttressing the serial numbers on both sides. I see more specialization and more varieties with coins -- and the descriptions (PL, DMPL, etc.) and grades -- are more in dispute there than with currency/bill grading and "fancy" stuff. We can disagree if a coin is PL on both sides but a bill either is or is not a radar or repeater or other fancy SN. I see where you are coming from on currency/bills but at the same time, I knew what I was doing when I bought a bunch. With coins (Saints and gold coins of various types/sizes) I make infrequent purchases because of the high costs. With these bills -- even "fake" fancies -- I can buy something at an auction, actually win something, and I'm out about $60 (sometimes less ! ). Like I said to Mike, I was active for a few months and bought maybe a dozen or so bills of different fancy types so nothing that will set me back lots of $$$. Later on, I bought a few (for me) premium notes like my Hawaii Note and my $10 Gold Certificate. To me, the fancy's are mostly harmless, inexpensive ways to buy high-graded moderns (the classics would cost too much $$$) if someone wants a few conversation pieces and/or doesn't have the $$$ for more prestigious bills. You can buy a dozen of these "fake fancies" instead of a single ungraded $500 or $1,000 bill in circulated condition. It all depends on what you want. But I don't think people will get burned on sub-$100 bills/currency which most of these costs.....OTOH, I saw a coinfomercial over the weekend with 5-ounce silvers going for $999 and Saint-Gaudens Winged Liberty commemoratives asking $5,500. I only hope anybody who can afford to pay those prices can also afford to lose the premium paid.

It's funny/weird seeing notes for countries that no longer exist -- Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia -- that I grew up with reading about in the 1970's. "Ukraine/German Occupation" -- nothing changes, huh ? Just cross out GERMAN with RUSSIAN.

Yeah, I think you're right, FM....I'll scour the HA and GC archives and see what they go for now. I'm curious about those "cheapo" bills I bought if they have gone up in price or anything. Probably not, since every run has more of them and they're not the most valuable SNs.

It's a nice conversation piece given the high quality and the unique SN. I'll bet all "5's" would probably cost 5-10x as much, even for a modern. For an older bill....SC or GC (if it exists)...probably closer to $1,000 or so. Just like the super-low (< 10) serial number bills cost a fortune for classic bills and even pricey for moderns where you know there are more with every print run. I wonder if BEP employees or F&F get the super-low SN bills ? You think they are spoken for....or they go out like all the rest ? I think there are probably employment prohibitions about getting special bills like that which are known to be worth big $$$.

When I got on a buying kick for bills/currency years ago, I noticed some "close calls" with bills -- modern and old -- where a Serial Number was off by 1 (or 2) digits from being super-special. The price for perfection was so high that I had to drop out, but I picked up a few of those "near misses" for prices (I think) somewhere between $30-$50. Not sure what they go for now, maybe somebody knows. Heritage used to auction them pretty frequently, at least monthly (Weekly Currency Auction, I think I was a regular for a few months). Anyway, here's one:

XarrrdaS, a $10 GC similar to your with a grade of VF30 PPQ was sold tonight on GC for $245 (ex bp). https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1539995/Fr-2400-AA-Block-1928-10-Gold-Certificate-Note-Woods-Mellon-PCGS-Currency-Very-Fine-30-PPQ Similar color....comparable borders....could be a bit "dirtier" than your bill so maybe yours is a 35. Mike's estimate of $300 was in the ballpark.

When I said coin strikings, I was thinking of classic MSDs and DEs. You're right, modern coinage and much U.S. Small Denomination coins were struck in the billions. Mike, do you go to any currency-themed/heavy shows ? What about the big national shows, like FUN ?

I thought I had bought a Super Radar or Repeater or something like that but apparently not.....I think maybe I bid on a few....but got out-bid on them. As I recall, the price went much higher than for regular Radar's or Repeater's.

XarrrdaS, did you ever submit the note or bring it to a dealer to gauge the grade ?

It would seem to me that with fewer currency/bill collectors than coin collectors.....and with print runs of bills often in the tens of millions, sometimes BILLIONS....that you have different supply-demand dynamics at work here for many bill types. Much different than with coin strikings of hundreds of thousands, millions tops, and survival rates much lower than the struck totals.

The BEP's orange-backed sheet of $100,000 bills (Gold Certificates) is often displayed. I saw it at FUN 2020.

Unfortunately, unless NGC/PMG allow for the posting of PDFs, the articles can't be posted here for easy accessibility though we can discuss them and cut-and-past highlights.

I had forgotten that I had attended (by accident) the Society of Paper Money Collectors' (SPMC) address when I attended FUN 2020. Right after -- and a bit before -- I actually was more active with buying bills/currency than with coins. Anyway, they have some great resources available with older articles of journal quality: https://content.spmc.org/wiki/SPMC_Paper_Money_Articles_Index I spent most of my time here in the U.S. Small Size articles: https://content.spmc.org/wiki/SPMC_Paper_Money_Articles_Index_(Category:_Small_Size_Type) Unless you join, the most recent articles (within 5 years) are off-limits but there are some great older articles and the ones from 2019 on are being turned on. You can also just join.

I forgot that QDB also has written about currency and bills, thanks for the reminder. Will investigate and report back. Didn't Colonel Hogan and his men put an end to that counterfeit ring ? I wasn't really worried about it too much, they had this guy -- Schultz -- and let me tell you....HE...KNEW....NOTHING !!!

I have the Standard Guide to Small Size US Paper Money book (9th Ed) and the Standard Catalog of U.S. Paper Money (27th Ed.). Both are pretty much inventories of printed bills with (outdated ?) pricing. Does anybody have any recommendation on OTHER books that might be more up-to-date and/or have little stories on select bills ? For instance, the Standard Guide has a couple of 1/2 page interesting bits on the Series 1933A Blue Seal Silver Certificates and a few pages earlier on the 1964 removal of the prohibition on holding Gold Certificates. I really like books that give you stories about some or all of the bills (can't do all of them, I get that). For instance, Bowers includes select stories (esp. on shipwrecks) in some of his Whitman Red Books. For instance, I'd love to know who used, bought, or was involved with some of the Large Denomination bills like the $5,000 and $10,000 bill...maybe early auctions of them ?....the stories about whether to print them and/or how many (they had to realize that no more than few dozen people could use bills that big)...etc. Anyway, I find stuff like that very fascinating and it makes a book that is otherwise pretty much listings of bill types more interesting...breaks up the drudgery of it being just a glorified price guide. Anybody else share this interest in currency books ?

Sounds like a plan......I have the 9th Edition of Small Size US Currency 1928-to date......also, the 27th Edition of the Standard Catalog of U.S. Paper Money. Not sure why I got both, a friend who was big into bills a decade or more ago told me to get both. I guess if they ever stop doing updates or printing them I'm covered.

I have a few pages of SC's in those plastic folder things, from my collecting days in the 1970's and from my parents/grandparents in later years....4 to a page....most are probably AU-quality....a few are stars...I assume no rare prints or anything like that...nothing like those bunch of Large Demoninations thrown out of a window in DC or whatever that I read about years ago . Anyway, they are all SC's in AU (1930's, 1950's, 1960's), so all worth pretty much face unless high-MS ? What about with a star (got a few but not many) ? A few also might have a blue seal. I probably have about 100 or so...probably looking at $150 tops if I sold them all to a dealer I guess. What I need is a master plan like that of my namesake to make my SC's more valuable by destroying everybody elses !!! . Where can I get my own OddJob ?

Hi PMG....for some reason, the amount of reactions -- Thank Yous, Likes, etc. -- is limited in the PMG Currency/Bill section. We used to have this in the coin section but the limit was abolished. Can we get the limit lifted here as well ? Especially since some of us -- like me -- disappear for long periods and then re-appear and catch up, the daily limit is something we'd hit frequently if we read a number of threads/posts.

Thanks Mike...interesting. In all fairness -- as evidenced by my posting frequency here -- I blow hot-and-cold on following those auctions so it's probably true that if I followed them more closely I'd see the super-low SN's more often for special notes (I see them for regular run-of-the-mill bills).

You either have to trust the seller if it's raw OR go by the actual grade and assume it is correct. At first glance, looking at my $10 GC, I would have thought it was misgraded and was high-50's if not 60's. It wasn't -- the folds or creases (the smaller ones ! ) were visible if you held it the right way. What I find is that not only are the grades pretty accurate for currency (less debate than with coins)....but that the big thing that keeps bills Mint State but drops the number (and the "eye appeal") is uneven borders. Virtually all the low-60's bills I see have uneven borders, NOT one minor fold/crease that is tough to see. My bill is much lower-graded than an PMG-63 or 62, but it looks much better unless you are a trained pro and can see the fold defects which unlike surface items on a coin are very tough to see. This is something I had to learn with bills vs. coins. Just like AU-58 coins can be nicer than low MS-60's, a bill in the 40's or 50's can be nicer-looking than a PMG low-60's unless you are angling light to see the folds which the MS bill doesn't have and the AU and lower bills do.

Good website....was able to quickly see that for the $500 and $1,000 bills you had tens of thousands printed for the most part....but for the $5,000 and $10,000 bills it was thousands.

Really ? Saved ? I haven't seen them for sale, but maybe they are treated like family heirlooms and come up for sale only every now and then. So you -- and other currency experts -- believed that the super-low numbers for Light Green, Dark Green, Red, Gold Certificate, Silver Certificate, and Large Denomination regular bills -- are out there still...preserved ?

Yeah, that's what the guy had (and I too have a few dozen or hundred, somewhere, I think ). Wow...BILLIONS ? Didn't realize that many. I knew the Gold Certificates were printed much less but didn't realize by that much.

I got this at FUN 2020: