Post marked $1 Hawaii notes

[Weg]

There are a few P-C block Hawaii $1 notes that were postmarked

Sep 2, 1945

Tokyo Bay, Navy

Does anyone have an idea about how many are out there?

I have one and am looking for another for a friend but they do not show up very often. Has anyone seen one on a note other than a P-C block?

Thanks for any info

[Weg]

Here is a pic of the one I have. To me, as a collector these are as important as another block. If Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor there would not be any Hawaii Emergency notes to collect; the irony that these were at the place and the time that Japan surrendered makes them the most historically significant note that can be added into a collection.

[ZES-migration]

I've been looking for one myself for a few years. I have come across 2 for sale but not in a condition that I feel would fit well into my collection. I should probably not have been so picky and picked one up just to have an example in my collection and then upgraded later on. I missed out on one at a LK auction a couple years ago that was in pretty nice condition, I just didn't realize at the time how hard they were to come by and i've been kicking myself ever since. I did not record any information on any of them i've seen but I do remember for sure that they were ALL from the PC block. I have also never seen one on any other denomination besides the $1. I'm hoping that there are a few $5's, $10's or even a $20 out there as it would be much more unique at this point.

[Weg]

Zes, I've never heard of a $5, $10, or $20 like this myself. This is another reason I'm thinking there may not be many out there. I believe I have recorded about 5 of them, maybe 6 but most are in poor condition. The one I posted is the best one I've seen or heard of, and that is a 55.

 

Unless I hear of a lot more of them I'm going to continue thinking it may have only been one person that had them stamped. Here is the info I have so far:

 

P34079383C VF+ 1 stamp on face, left side, 1 stamp on center of back

P34079514C VG 1 stamp on the face, left side of the note

P34079527C 55 PMG 1 stamp on the face, left side of the note-Mine

P34079558C F stained back right, 2 stamps on left and right side of the face

P34079744C Laminated VG, 2 stamps on left and right side of the face

P34079751C

 

If anyone knows of any other serial numbers and any details I love to hear it. As I'm collecting all blocks, varieties, and stars because of the historical significance I'm viewing these as important as another block, a must have. I'd like the notes in my collection to be high grade but some of these do not seem to be out there as such. For example, the Emergency note that holds the highest price tag is a note with only four known and they are all graded 25; the FR 2308* I do not know if I'll ever be able to add that one to my collection.

 

[ZES-migration]

Was the note you have purchased by you raw or already graded, did you pick it up from LK? The one that I saw and foolishly passed on was roughly in the same shape as the one you have if I remember correctly. I'm wondering if that might be the same note that I I was looking at and passed on. I assume that you are correct and that there aren't many floating around out there. I think that they were probably all done on $1 notes because they were a lot easier to hold onto for long periods of time back then vs. higher denomination notes. What do you think about the LST notes that goldmine has/had? I think those are really cool as well and have only seen the 2 that he got off the bay. I think he told me about one other that he saw but that wasn't stamped on a U.S. note, I don't recall what country that note was from. I don't think he ended up with it.I think those hold a pretty cool historical value as well as the Tokyo bay stamped notes.

[Weg]

The one I picked up was from a person, raw at the time so I sent it in to be encapsulated. Tom/goldmine has found a couple interesting notes such as the LST notes; those I like. What I have a tough time getting into are short snorters. A few have names that can be traced so that there is a story that can be associated with the note. To me this is what gives some life to the note, just like Toms LST notes.

 

As of now I only have one note that may be considered a short snorter. It has just three signitures but I picked it up because it has a message on the front from a brother to his sister along with a 1942 coin where the reverse was smoothed and the sisters name engraved on it. I was hoping a story could be found there between the two items but so far no luck.

 

They are posted on a different forum where I asked for help in reading the names on the back side of the note. I believe the top name is the brother that sent the note and coin home to his sister; but even though his name is in the margin it is the only one I can not make out.

 

The note says "To Vickie...." and the coin has Vickie Cwalina engraved on back so I'm thinking Vickie was married which accounts for a different last name. So far, no story.

 

Only once have I bid on a couple short snorters in auction. The two of them had generals signatures. Within 10 seconds of each lot opening I was blown out of the water; I didn't have enough ammo left.

[johnny9434]

cool note. hang onto that one

[ZES-migration]

I haven't gotten into the short snorters much either. I have one that I picked up just because of the serial number (near solid). There were so many people associated with the war that its nearly impossible to research the names on the snorters unless they played a huge part in the war. Most of them are really hard to read as well. I know goldmine has one of the LST notes for sale right now on a different board (the one with the typing of the ships position on the front and back of it). If he still has it in a few weeks i'm going to make an offer. I'd love to have that one. I'd also love to have your courtesy autographed Hawaii note as well.

[Weg]

The courtesy autographed Hawaii is part of a set. These two just belong together. What would have been cool is if he would have used the blue ink from silver certs to sign the N. Africa as he used the brown to sign the Hawaii. That or if both were serial number 00000071; best yet would be both ink and serials. Now that would have blown me away.

[Weg]

While I like the two autographed notes, I still think the Tokyo Bay post marked notes are best. They tell the story of a war from beginning to end. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes, to me the VJ notes are priceless.

[dmatt-migration]

I noticed several of you are looking for examples of this note to buy. I noticed one on EBAY, which led me to google "Hawaii Sep 2", which led to this site. The note is being sold by the son of a vet (why he'd sell such a treasure is beyond me), but y'all should check it out.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RAREST-HAWAII-BILL-NAVY-ISSUE-FROM-USS-MISSOURI-ARMISTICE-DAY-SEPT-2nd-1945-/140770047076?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c68c7464

 

No clue as to value, but condition is great.

 

Happy hunting ...

[johnny9434]

way cool notes weg. something to have in anyones collection

[RWB]

All Pacific sailors had paper money exchanged for Hawaii bills when they left port. The scarce currency would be a normal blue seal silver certificate (or even a yellow seal) with the Tokyo Bay stamp.

[Weg]

I haven't logged on here for awhile and somehow missed the last few replies.

 

I can't agree with the post mark on a blue or yellow seal. With the post mark on a brown seal it finishes the story of Hawaii notes. One of our responces to Japan attacking Pearl Harbor was to create the Hawaii notes, just encase they came back.

 

Blue seals were already being printed by the BEP so the blue seals existence had nothing to do with Japans aggression.

 

The yellow seals were printed for reasons that were different than the Hawaii brown seal. Although the yellow seals were printed as a result of the war they were printed for a similar reason as the brown but not really the same reason.

 

Once Japan was defeated it seems fitting that a few Hawaii notes were post marked where and when they surrendered. They created the reason for Hawaii notes and when they surrendered they made it so there was no longer a need for the Hawaii notes.

[RWB]

The point is that sailors were not supposed to have either blue or yellow seal currency -- only the Hawaii bills. If someone had a blue seal $1 stamped, it would be much rarer than a common place brown seal.

[Weg]

Ok, I understand where you're coming from. It's true that almost everyone in Hawaii (civilians and military) were supposed to have Hawaii notes; no green,blue, or yellow seal notes. If someone could have gotten a blue seal stamped it may have turned out to be one of a kind.

 

The issue I'd have with it is that it doesn't tell the story of the war.It breaks up the story. Japan attacks, we make Hawaii notes, Japan surrenders and some of the notes created because of the attack are there at the time and place when Japan surrenders.

[Weg]

Well I received some news that's a real bummer. I found another VJ note and sent it in for grading. The note was sent back raw with a message that PMG is no longer grading/encapsulating VJ notes. It seems unpatriotic to me.

[ZES-migration]

I'd love to have the one on ebay but this guy is asking MOON money for it. He has no idea of the real value.

 

Weg, do you have a scan of your new note?

[ZES-migration]

Also, what was the reason that PMG isn't grading these notes anymore? Or did they not give a reason?

[Weg]

ZES, I have not seen the one on ebay, how much is moon money?

Below is a couple pics of the new VJ note with the little piece of paper that gives the reason,,I guess. This one is stained on back which I presume is from the note being folded and kept in the old sailors or solders wallet for years after the war. At first I didn't like the stain but after thinking about where it came from I like even more. If I was there in Tokyo Bay that day it would have been a day to remember so I may have saved it in my wallet too. What I first viewed as a negitive I now think of as it adds more to the story.

[ZES-migration]

Fred Bart has one up for sale on ebay for $1495 in Very Fine 25 PCGS. He will not budge under $1000 because he says that a couple have sold for $1000 so thats what its worth. Only problem with that is that he couldn't provide me with any examples that have sold for that much. There was another one up not long ago that a previous poster provided a link too that the seller wanted way too much for as well. Of course neither sold at those rediculas prices. Another sold on ebay May 12 as part of a three note lot that went for $372. That is more of the range i've seen them selling at. That one was in close to the same condition as the one you've shown. Did you pick yours up at auction as well? It seems like there have been quite a few of these coming up for sale lately. I wonder why PMG decided not to grade these notes anymore. Are you going to send it it too the other grading company since PMG won't do it?

[ZES-migration]

Here is a link to the one I referred too on ebay in May:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3pc-Lot-1-Hawaii-1935-A-Short-Snorter-Postmarked-Notes-No-Reserve-/221014539189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33757e3bb5

[Weg]

I have to admit that I think these are worth more than I've been paying for them. It is not numismatic value, at the moment I can not think of what the type of value is called. It's like shortsnorters with generals signatures or the president's. I sat at one auction that had a couple shortsnorters with generals signatures and was prepaired to pick up my first shortsnorter because with the generals signatures they meant something to me. I didn't bring one home because the bidding past $1,000 in seconds; but I see more value in the VJ notes. It's hard for me to say what they are worth because there are less of these than A-C block or stars. Condition does not mean as much for figuring prices either. How do you value history?

 

I can not say why PMG changed their mind on encapsulating these. It may have been a mistake, maybe I got them POd at me when I wrote to them about a problem with the registry sets. I know I can send it to PCGS but I'd prefer not to even if they force me to.

[ZES-migration]

Your right it is pretty difficult to determine value on these notes. The biggest problem that I see with them is that they don't really have a place in a set. Most people will collect block sets or denomination sets, ect....... these don't really have a place in a set like that. They are more of a novelty note to be added on the side of a set. Thats why the * notes and the A/C block notes are worth a lot more. There don't seem to be many collectors that are that interested in these notes to dictate a higher value. This is obvious by what value these notes have been bringing so far. I would bet that there were quite a few of these stamped judging by the serial ranges we've seen so far. I would agree that these hold more of a historical value but that isn't translating into a monetary value when these sell. You should try calling PMG to ask them why they sent your note back too you ungraded. It doesn't make sense that they would choose not to grade them after they already have and not give an answer as to why. I wonder if it has anything to do with not being able to authenticate the stamp itself. I wonder if they are hard to forge. As far as the short snorters go, I have one that I picked up but it was mainly for the fancy serial number. The snorter part was just an added bonus. Its impossible to verify who actually signed the notes. The signatures could have been added at any time by anyone and there is no way to authenticate them unfortunately. What is the highest price that you know of that has been paid for one of the stamped notes so far?

[Weg]

I can only tell you what I have paid for the two I have; the most is $300 but to be honest I'd have paid double that simply because of the history the notes are part of. The Hawaii notes exist for one reason, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor which brought us into the war. After Japan was defeated they signed surrender papers on the Missouri anchored in Toyko Bay and these notes were there. The war the Japanese started that made a need for Hawaii notes was finally over. I can not put a price on history but it seems to me WWII affected more people than any other event. So to me they are worth a lot; millions of lives and millions of hardships, these tell that story. Something of a unique thing for currency.

[ZES-migration]

I agree with what your saying, it just seems like maybe you and myself are the only ones that think the same about these notes as no others that I can find have sold previously at very high prices. I have to assume that its because most collectors that know about these notes see them as novelty type notes and not part of a set. Kind of like the LST notes, there is a lot of history behind those notes as well and so far only 2 known. I'm sure there are more out there and I can only hope they surface. I love the history part of the WWII notes. Do you know of any "special" NA notes that would be an equilevant to the Hawaii notes?

[Weg]

I can not think of any N.Africa note that has anything like this. There are some varieties which are scarce such as the $5 FP 307 star and the $10 FP 86 star but nothing comes to mind as far as value added.

[ZES-migration]

I would love to see one of these cancelled notes on another denomination. That would be unique at this point.

[Weg]

I've only heard storys of other denominations; that would be cool.

[RWB]

Sailors did not have a lot of cash to tie up in souvenir currency. They were expected to send most of their pay back home to their families and also to buy War bonds. A $5 or $10 bill was a big chunk of money to hang on to.